IMPBA rules question

[T.S.Davis]

The class chair also can only submit rule proposals through the normal process and that is for the district to pass it and submit it to NAMBA National for a vote of the membership the same as any other NAMBA member can do.

Dead on Eric. There is no end run that any of the NAMBA chairs can do. Not that I've seen anyway. I'm not sure how IMPBA does it.

It may have been me that mentioned some NAMBA FE rule proposals being worked on. I should clarify. There were/are some proposals being worked on. I know the FE chairman has had input on them. As have I. So, that's two consecutive FE chairman having input on some potential rule proposals. They're being tested by multiple clubs in multiple districts. Those proposals, if they work like we think they will, will then be proposed at a district level. Might be my district now that I think about it. If passed at the district level, they can then be proposed for a national vote. Eliminates the "they" part of the equation. "They" is "us" with this procedure.

So in regard to Dons' critisizm.......yes, I have been and will continue to be part of the solution. Just not for more than one organization. It's too much. Now, if by discussing these things here someone else from IMPBA is inspired to be part of the solution too then hurray for all of us.

In both organizations defense, we need to remind ourselves (me too) that for 99.9% of the members........it's a freak'n hobby. We all have day jobs. The rules were all written by regular schmoes like us. There are going to be inconsistencies, typo, errors, flat out brain farts. The books aren't going to measure up to lawyer like scrutiny. I'll try to remember that too.

We'll all keep working on it and when it's perfect we'll know for sure...........we've all died.

 

[Don Ferrette]

In both organizations defense, we need to remind ourselves (me too) that for 99.9% of the members........it's a freak'n hobby. We all have day jobs. The rules were all written by regular schmoes like us. There are going to be inconsistencies, typo, errors, flat out brain farts. The books aren't going to measure up to lawyer like scrutiny. I'll try to remember that too.

That was excellent Terry, thank you. It all can be made better and the sooner folks stop saying "they" and start saying "we" things will move forward much easier.

 

[jeepers]

Fast Electric

Sport Hydro

General

All boats to RESEMBLE UNLIMITED HYDROPLANES from the PAST or PRESENT. Fictitious teams may be

created within the Spirit of the past and present Unlimited Hydroplanes. The word "RESEMBLE"

shall be LOOSELY INTERPRETED (meaning its not really restricted) and as long as the boat is configured in the spirit of a real 3-point,

full-bodied hydro, it shall be deemed legal..

Motor/Cells

A. All boats must be inboard motor powered with an effort made to conceal the motor

with fake engine or cowling as per prototype boats.

Hull Configurations

A Hull must conform to the three-point hydroplane configuration and RESEMBLE a real

limited or unlimited hydroplane from the past or present. Canard hulls are permitted

as long as it is modeled after a prototype. Outriggers, modified outriggers or tunnels

are not allowed.

B All boats must have some sort of markings affixed (such as sponsor names, logos,

racing numbers) even if these names are fictitious. The hull appearance shall be in

the spirit of resembling a real racing hydroplane.

C The boat must have a driver figure and/or a simulated enclosed cockpit. A

blacked-out canopy is allowed.

D Both round-nose and pickle-fork hull styles are allowed.

E Air traps/dams are optional.

Driveline

Struts, props and rudders may protrude beyond the transom.

here is my take on it I highlighted it in red.Then LOOK carefully at the yellow boat. Terry's custom boat looks like it RESEMBLES an Unlimited hydro to me. ITS LEGAL in my book.

Here is what resembles means http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/resembles

 

[Hydro Junkie]

One thing you have to remember, Jeepers, is that the rules on what is a legal hull were written prior to the latest generation of unlimiteds hitting the drawing boards. All full sized boats had flat transoms, none had extended nontrips until the 86 Bud T-1 and canard winged hulls were in their infancy. The rules reflect those days, from 1980-1989 for the unlimiteds and the unlimited lights, which are still all flat transomed except for one or two that are twin wing, which is another illegal design

 

[T.S.Davis]

That's the Elam hull. Or at least it was. You'd have to knock the shoes off the bottom for it to be legal in sport. Doesn't feel right but that's how it's written. Oh, and saw the whole rear end of the boat off so it was flat. That doesn't feel quite right either. The boat looks that way for aerodynamic reasons. Honestly, I'm surprised tail feather are legal. The real unlimited guys don't put them on there just for show.

Now that I think about it. Looking at that picture of the Elam. If the vertical face of the back of the boat is the transom I guess the Elams' trans is about 40% of the tub width. To me.....the whole width of the back of the boat should be the dimension in question and NOT just the width of the vertical portion. The whole point of the 65% rule that was added to the electric section was to avoid modified riggers. It's all about keeping air under the boat until it gets to rear end. The actual vertical face could be an inch wide. It has no effect on the boat becoming a modified rigger. That's why I was asking about a definition of transom. On the Elam, if they had mounted the strut under the boat and had a knife edge across the whole back........think about it..........does that mean the transom width is actually 0% of the tub width? I don't think so.

I should have mentioned before. I built this boat for a 10 year old. The boat is stupid fast. He finished with perfect heats this past Sunday. My real hydro racing buddy tried to buy the boat because he was so impressed with the lines. He thought it looked more like the real thing than my usual builds.

 

[Jeff]

O.K.

What about those stupid rails under the aeromarine sport hydro? I know they are not legal in namba, what about impba? I have seen this boat run in namba, even at a nats, but it isn't legal inmo.

 

[Grimracer]

Jeepers,

Dont forget page H-8.. Sport Hull Configurations..

"Transom Cutouts not allowed" BTY you will also find other rule information on that page..

The intent of the class is to be a somewhat scale (dare I say sport scale) full body boat that is not TRULEY scale for the dudes that dont want to add all the detail. Get it knocked off and then fix and repeat.

Thinking.. if the IMPBA did not say resemble.. what word would have been right.

Grim

 

[Hydro Junkie]

Just went back and looked at that picture of the boat on the sling again. Sorry Jeepers, it's not the Elam. If you look at the shirts the guys are wearing, they have U-37 on the back. Elam as far as I know has never been yellow, it's been either white with blue graphics or the more familiar orange with white tails

 

[T.S.Davis]

Just went back and looked at that picture of the boat on the sling again. Sorry Jeepers, it's not the Elam. If you look at the shirts the guys are wearing, they have U-37 on the back. Elam as far as I know has never been yellow, it's been either white with blue graphics or the more familiar orange with white tails

dUHHH. Your right. It's the Lumar. I had the right one in my head but not on my fingers. We had a guy in our club replicate that rear end on a Thomas hull after seeing the boat. You'd think I would remember that.

 

[T.S.Davis]

Dont forget page H-8.. Sport Hull Configurations..

"Transom Cutouts not allowed" BTY you will also find other rule information on that page..

...........in IMPBA.

The cut-out verbiage isn't in the namba book. Plus, the NAMBA sport hydro rules don't apply to electric. Just as they shouldn't in IMPBA. My opinion of course.

That said, the newest version of the IMPBA electric rules include the cutout verbiage. If a venue were to enforce the newest "unpublished" rules the boat isn't legal. If you go by the old electric rules (that ARE published) you can't find text that tells you the nitro specialized sections apply to electric. It's never been in there because they shouldn't apply but we'll have to agree to dissagree. You also can't find text that indicates that ALL sport hydro fall under the jurisdiction of the Sport Hydro Director. I was supposed to just know that on my own somehow. Letter of the law by the published pages it should have been fine.

Another question to ponder. If the nitro sections for sport have always applied to FE then why do the new FE sections inlude their own version of the same transom limitations?...............wait for it.........................because you couldn't make the leap to nitro from the exist FE sections. It simply isn''t there.

The short solution is to just not run it in IMPBA. The predecessor to this boat still holds the P Sport 2 lap record. It's a week record. I had planned on destroying that record but never mind.

 

[Mark Leyde]

Oh Jesus Christ. Just race the darn thing and have fun. The dame rules are all F#$%*& up and out of date. Hell they even contradict them self's as far as I am concerned.

Can we move on. This is a Hobby!

 

[SReesor]

Terry, Terry , Terry...

You kill me. Just bring the boat to Flint, I have a dremel that'll fix that thing right up! You've seen me in action thrashing in the pits before...gimme 10 minutes with that thing and it'll be legal :lol: ...and purty to boot!

Seeya soon

 

[Grimracer]

no need to read this thread if it makes you all giddy there Mark..

we all agree this is just toy boat racing.. or do we?

I have done my best to help understand what Terrys situation is and was. Im not sure I see the full deal but we all seem to agree the rules could be better written. To me (just me) I don’t think one can ever cover there butts writing rules.. You will always have rule mongers picking and poking the tiniest of holes in the rule set. I see it all the time. Cars, planes, slot cars, etc……..

Terry had a good design idea.. it did not fit in with the IMPBA rule set.. he is upset because he wanted to break a record and now can not with that boat.

REALY!

Sounds MUCH deeper then JUST PLAYING TOY BOATS TO ME! Last time I got upset playing toy boats I realized I needed to step back and take a VERY close look at what I was thinking and doing.

That was a LONG time ago.. Truth is I remember the very heat… I NEVER EVER want to take this HOBBY to that level again.. As Terry is finding out..(and many others I know) its NO fun. Most leave the hobby and never come back!

And with the internet now days one can drag this crap though the people that are willing to read but do nothing to help.. It becomes a bitch fest and nothing good comes from it.

I really like T-dog (you know that right bro) and know he has good intentions. His boats are fast and he as well as many others know it. It to bad he is giving up on the record. We (IMPBA) and terry both loose on that deal.

ROCKET AND ROLL

Grim

 

[T.S.Davis]

Yes, I know we're cool Mike. No misunderstanding there at all. I have caught myself taking the "hobby" too serious on more than one occassion. Still trying to shake one of them. I wouldn't say I'm upset exactly this time. More like annoyed.

It's Ty's boat. After running it I can see how much potential it has. I thought I'd borrow it one weekend and see what it's really made of. Mike, you saw the Tide boat. It was darn right respectable speed wise. This one is 4.5 pounds lighter. Holy crap! Design aside that's almost a 50% weight reduction. Throw in a real P Sport combo in it instead of the spec setup and hold on to my butt. Might need more hands. That boat will show up at the NAMBA FE nats though. If it's still in one piece by August. It does belong to a 10 year old after all.

Steve, I can't rip into Ty's boat. HOWEVER!! I already have the next design figured out. Come spring of 2011........ vroom a zoom zoom. Next one will be glass.

Mike, how do you keep up with all your ideas? I built 6 new boats over the winter, held down a day job, and have a family too. None of it fealt like a grind either. Our race season just started and I already have 4 new ideas I want to pursue. Can't get them out of my head fast enough. I do envy you full time RC nut jobs.

 

[T.S.Davis]

Terry, Terry , Terry...

You kill me. Just bring the boat to Flint, I have a dremel that'll fix that thing right up! You've seen me in action thrashing in the pits before...gimme 10 minutes with that thing and it'll be legal :lol: ...and purty to boot!

Seeya soon

I could bring it out and let you blast it throught the traps if you had time. In current form it doesn't need to conform to anything since it's a P spec. There's no class for that so legal doesn't mean jack really.

Time is such a huge issue at the SAW's.

 

[jeepers]

Just went back and looked at that picture of the boat on the sling again. Sorry Jeepers, it's not the Elam. If you look at the shirts the guys are wearing, they have U-37 on the back. Elam as far as I know has never been yellow, it's been either white with blue graphics or the more familiar orange with white tails

I never said it was the Elam I just posted the picture of the hull, I have another picture of the same boat next to the Elam Terry was the one that said it was the Elam!

Then they also need to remove the word "present" if the rules want to keep every boat design in the past. 1-5-10-20yrs is all in the past!

 

[Hydro Junkie]

I stand corrected, it was TS Davis that said it. Sorry about that :blink:

 

[TinoAlmanza]

I don't know crap about rules, I just flip after lap 2 then paddle out to flip my boat over.

I would say that if you removed the Red wings decals and replaced them with Avalanche stickers it would then be deamed legal. Ya I said it

 

[SReesor]

Terry,

If you want to see its potential to evaluate the design, regardless of cut-outs, nothing is stopping you from running it as a 'hydro' in Flint. If you want, I'll run it for ya.

Steve

 

[T.S.Davis]

I would say that if you removed the Red wings decals and replaced them with Avalanche stickers it would then be deamed legal. Ya I said it

bahaha Blasphemy! 17 years of playoff hockey baby! Most Detroiters are Wings nuts. It's like a religion here. Those west coast games are bugger though. How can there be a hockey team in the desert? You can't make ice. haha We eat Coyote in MI.

Steve, I appreciate the offer. I would only consider having you run the boat if it was not going to interfere with your own quest for speed. There is something strange about going really fast ain't there? I'm going to try to get out there with or without the boat.

Honestly, it's still not quite there yet. It's quick but the numbers indicate that there's more left in the tank.............CAN'T HAVE THAT!!!!