How bad did Katrina hurt you?

[LawlessMan]

In upstate New York, where the gas taxes are already pretty high and we run about 30 cents above the "national average" cost per gallon, we saw the price of regular gas jump from $2.69/gal to $2.99/gal to $3.49/gal in about 3 days after Katrina. The stated reason, as reported by the local TV news was that "several refineries in the south were damaged by Katrina and won't be able to refine gas for an indefinite time". This is exactly the same "knee-jerk" reaction the oil companies have every time there is a crisis. The temporary shutdown of a few refineries won't affect any of the gas that is already refined, so why sell THAT gas at such outrageously inflated prices? We all know that as the fuel reserves (and I don't mean the federal oil reserves) start to get drawn down, the oil companies will do two things. One, they will futher inflate the cost of gasoline to make a few more billions at our expense, and they will simultaneously ramp up production at still-functioning refineries. Oh, yeah, don't think that they won't get billions in additional money from the federal government to repair the damage to their refineries, which are probably heavily insured, anyway. My question after all this is: "How many MORE ways can the oil companies screw us over?" The government will enjoy a huge windfall on the gas taxes, but the oil companies are the REAL bandits here. And, after the consumers, who gets hurt the most? Gas station operators, who STILL make only a few cents per gallon, regardless how much it sells for. IMHO

BTW, I don't remember if anyone addressed the question of what do you eat if you turn your crops into methanol, but as I understand the process, you wouldn't be using edible crops to do that. Bio-fuels can be made from just about anything that grows, some crops yield more than others. But if the information I've read is correct, you could conceivably turn a lot of bio-trash into bio-fuel. In France, they use spoiled wine. Cars can be converted to run on vegetable oil recycled from places like McDonald's (and they small like french fries, too, LOL). And propane and natural gas, which we theoretically have in abundance. The car companies are so in bed with the oil companies that they really don't want us to do that, though, so they make it very expensive to do it.

Some enterprising companies ought to be volunteering to clean up downed trees in the hurricane area, not just for the wood, but also for the leaves and branches, which can be chipped up and used as fuel.

 

[Don Ferrette]

I thought this was rather interesting. Next time someone says something about the price of gas in Europe keep this in mind from an article in today's Washington Post-

"For Europeans, the problem is not the skyrocketing cost of oil, but the gas taxes their countries add on, which in many cases account for two-thirds or more of the price of gasoline. For instance, if France did not levy a tax on gasoline, motorists here would pay about $1.98 a gallon for super unleaded, instead of about $7.09 a gallon.

"You can't blame America or the Arabs" for high gas prices, said a man in Paris as he topped off his four-wheel-drive Toyota. "It's because of the taxes. The government thinks that consumers are vache a lait , " or milking cows."

And we thought our government was bangin' us hard........

 

[izitbrokeyet?]

Dude,

You’re comparing Apples to Oranges. Taxes are higher, but the folks paying for gas in Europe shoulder the lion’s share of the cost for their excellent public transportation system. The sooner people realize that the Europeans have far surpassed the US in transportation the better. I’d recommend a field-trip about 6-7 time zones east of NY for anyone who doubts this.

There is a lesson to be learned there….sooner is better, later is harder.

Cheap Transportation here in the US has been taken for granted for a very long time now. This is a country that has become used to very low gas prices. To make things worse, Half the people here that are behind the wheel of a car here have no business driving at all. I’m sure our government will do the best they can to control market pressures on Oil/ gas…..but the net movement is going to be much higher over coming years. Probably to the point where the government will do something as ridiculous as subsidize the GM or other plants that continue to try and sell S.U.Vs. I think that if you watch the news, you’ll see that three are several 3rd world countries that are coming on line now in Asia that will put a severe strain on the worlds current supply side capacity.

I wonder when people will start griping about market driven prices and realize that Oil is a commodity that is subject to supply/ demand pressures. Speculation is a large and legitimate part of the current market. Speculation is in fact the prime mover in the oil market like other markets.

You will not see me griping/ bitching. I go to the pump and pay the price like anyone else….It’s still much less than what I’ve paid in the past. Sorry for the bad news, don’t shoot the messenger.

KB

 

[Don Ferrette]

You’re comparing Apples to Oranges. Taxes are higher, but the folks paying for gas in Europe shoulder the lion’s share of the cost for their excellent public transportation system.  The sooner people realize that the Europeans have far surpassed the US in transportation the better.  I’d recommend a field-trip about 6-7 time zones east of NY for anyone who doubts this.

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I'll just say two words- land mass. All those neat little Euro public transit systems you refer to are in countries far, far smaller than the U.S. We've got ourselves spread out over a vast land mass & no mass transit system will change that fact.

 

[ClayGlover]

Off topic, but in response to the previous posts on the "peak oil" scenarios such as opinated on the lifeaftertheoilcrisis websites, oil depletion will be a challenge. But as for the Mad Max scenario due to food shortages from depletion of fertilizers made from petroleum, that is not going to be the immenent problem for people.

Catastrophic global warming from CO2 released from burning petroleum will cause our demise long before we run out of oil. There was a great article in a recent issue of National Geographic regarding peak oil and global warming.

Just some "fuel for the fire"

I figure at the current rate we are burning petroleum, we have less than 50 years before life as we know it will be permanently changed one way or the other...

 

[carlnoki]

Just finished a 3 day stint in the N.O area for our company (First Transit) running folks from the city to Texas in our Coaches. it is very bad down there and drove by Slidell and i REALLY dont think the pond there is in any kind of shape to do much of anything.

the folks we were taking cross state were very appreciative of our services and thanked us ever so much.

took a gander a tthe gas prcies along the way and they are indeed going up every day/half day and might top out about $3.50 by weekends end. one never knows for sure.

i do agree with a few of the comments tho, take fewer trips, consilidate shopping, ect.

Dont be a lead foot, lower your freeway speeds, all this helps out in the fuel mileage.

hope to see some of you folks at teh next greenbriar and Centennial races.

later guys

carl cisneros

 

[Don Ferrette]

Since this was originally about gas prices here's an excerpt from something that just appeared recently in the Washington Post-

Clearly, mergers in the oil industry have a negative impact on consumers. And that's not just consumer groups like Public Citizen reaching that conclusion - it's the U.S. Government Accountability Office, the research arm of Congress. In May 2004, GAO released a report

www.gao.gov/new.items/d0496.pdf

showing that recent mergers have directly led to higher gasoline prices (and keep in mind, the price analysis ends in 2000, long before the mergers of ChevronTexaco and ConocoPhillips, so the price impact is much bigger).

 

And refining profit margins are hitting record highs. According to the US Department of Energy

www.eia.doe.gov/emeu/aer/pdf/pages/sec5_53.pdf

the US refining industry had profits of 22.8 cents per gallon in 1999. By 2004, that profit margin jumped 79% to 40.8 cents per gallon.

 

Environmental regulations over refineries aren't the problem. After all, a small company, Arizona Clean Fuels, is successfully obtaining all the necessary air quality and other environmental permits to build a brand new refinery outside Phoenix Arizona. If a small company can do it, why can't the world's most profitable corporation, ExxonMobil?

 

Public Citizen has tons of info on oil company price gouging:

www.citizen.org/cmep/energy_enviro_nuclear/electricity/Oil_and_Gas/

 

[Bart Drieghe]

You’re comparing Apples to Oranges. Taxes are higher, but the folks paying for gas in Europe shoulder the lion’s share of the cost for their excellent public transportation system.  The sooner people realize that the Europeans have far surpassed the US in transportation the better.  I’d recommend a field-trip about 6-7 time zones east of NY for anyone who doubts this.

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I'll just say two words- land mass. All those neat little Euro public transit systems you refer to are in countries far, far smaller than the U.S. We've got ourselves spread out over a vast land mass & no mass transit system will change that fact.

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Don , no offence but wether it is taxes or not , WE ( the common european Guy & Girl ) still have to pay it and i'm telling u , its sad to pay so much . ( and just for the record , taxes are about 56% if not mistaken )

We can't drive ( unless u're loaded with money ) those SUV cars , just cause they use soo much gas/petrol .

There is one good thing on the high price , :

A : manufactors are making cars that use 3 - 5 liter for 100 km

( wich is in the end good for the enviroment )

B : U're not using your car to go to the toilet .

Best Regards ,

Bart

 

[JJ Martin]

I will inspect the pond and hotels in the Slidell area this weekend, Pond should be ok but will need some clean up. As for the hotels Covington has some hotels and hopefully some of the hotels in the Slidell area are ok. After inspection I should have a better idea if the Hydro Invite will go on as planned.

Just finished a 3 day stint in the N.O area for our company (First Transit) running folks from the city to Texas in our Coaches. it is very bad down there and drove by Slidell and i REALLY dont think the pond there is in any kind of shape to do much of anything. the folks we were taking cross state were very appreciative of our services and thanked us ever so much.

took a gander a tthe gas prcies along the way and they are indeed going up every day/half day and might top out about $3.50 by weekends end. one never knows for sure.

i do agree with a few of the comments tho, take fewer trips, consilidate shopping, ect.

Dont be a lead foot, lower your freeway speeds, all this helps out in the fuel mileage.

hope to see some of you folks at teh next greenbriar and Centennial races.

later guys

carl cisneros

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[jeff baham]

I will inspect the pond and hotels in the Slidell area this weekend, Pond should be ok but will need some clean up. As for the hotels Covington has some hotels and hopefully some of the hotels in the Slidell area are ok. After inspection I should have a better idea if the Hydro Invite will go on as planned.

Just finished a 3 day stint in the N.O area for our company (First Transit) running folks from the city to Texas in our Coaches. it is very bad down there and drove by Slidell and i REALLY dont think the pond there is in any kind of shape to do much of anything. the folks we were taking cross state were very appreciative of our services and thanked us ever so much.

took a gander a tthe gas prcies along the way and they are indeed going up every day/half day and might top out about $3.50 by weekends end. one never knows for sure.

i do agree with a few of the comments tho, take fewer trips, consilidate shopping, ect.

Dont be a lead foot, lower your freeway speeds, all this helps out in the fuel mileage.

hope to see some of you folks at teh next greenbriar and Centennial races.

later guys

carl cisneros

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jj when are you going to the pond saturday or sunday let me know and i will met you there. 985-845-0798.