"F" hydro

[RUNNERX]

I am looking to see what peoples views are on gas running in this class, for against whatever.

Thanks,

David

 

[Don Ferrette]

I am looking to see what peoples views are on gas running in this class, for against whatever.
Thanks,

David

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Boy this has been a nasty one when brought up previously. But what the heck, I'll bite - against it.

 

[Buckshot]

NO WAY. They wanted their own classes a long time ago and they got them. Keep them that way.

-BUCK-

 

[Mike T.]

Great, we'll fuel up with Red Max, then see how it goes....

 

[PHM Racing]

There's so many gas boat out there know i really don't think they need to run in F Hydro they should have there own class .

F Hydro is a NITRO clss is it not.

I have a twin that i will run in F Hydro and i have a gas rigger that will not run in F hydro i guess my gas boat may collect alot of dust <_<

 

[Joe Warren]

I`am with Don F I`am AGAINST........ Seems the GAS boys have their Rules to keep the Nitro boats out of their 10,000 different CC GAS classes. By the pull start issue... I say if you want to race that GAS engine in the Nitro F class?? TIP the NITRO can into it & line it up.... Other than that they are in the way when it becomes heat racing time..... I have NEVER seen a GAS engine get off the corner like a Well tuned Nitro engine....... Only Benefit the gassers have. They can Race @ Noon. & Trim your yard by Evening........ Plus it (GAS) nice for cleaning parts on a tear.... Already expect to get TORCHED on this Post..... SO BLAST AWAY........ But your Blowing GAS.......VS NITRO....... :lol: :lol:

 

[RUNNERX]

The way the Impba rules read "F" is motor size it says nothing about fuel.

Or like Mike said run on methanol and it would not be a "gas" boat.

One thing is for sure either way it gets handled people will get pissed.

How about this...

You bring your "F" nitro boat to a race but they don't have enough to make a class, do you let the gas boats run in it to make the class?

I know its a loaded question but I felt the need to through it out.

 

[Grub]

In Australia, there is a funny rule in the Gas rules

14.3.3 Any brand Mono, Hydroplane or Tunnels allowed, but must be run in their respective classes.

Although this appears under the Hull specification banner, if it has a Gas engine it must be run in the respective class, for example 16-25cc Mono, Tunnel or Hydro.

It's funny how rules can be interpreted.

Is there anything like this in IMPBA or NAMBA rules?

Grub - using a big spoon to stir

 

[Jerry Wyss]

I've ran my sport 60 when there wasn't any boats in my class, in a club race,,

I didn't get any points, but the "Gas Guy's" let me run with 'em, it was Fun

But,I wouldn't expect to be able to do that in a Dist. race :huh:

 

[Scott Schneider]

For what it's worth, In NAMBA 9 we had this happen.

A few years ago our X hydro class which is limited to 30 cc's was being run by 99% of the guys with a single .80 or .90 nitro engines. Very few twins being used.

The Gas guys wanted a Gas hydro class but were not able to get the overall vote to get it as a class.

So some of us ( yes me too ) Built gas hydros and raced them in the X class with the nitro boats.

Well ..... they were not faster, but were fast enough to get in the way and made big holes in the water with there greater weight, massive props and huge roostertails.

After one year of the gas guys running and having a blast, the nitro guys were sooooo pissed that when we applied for our own G-1 gas hydro class the following year, the vote was overwhelming in our favor and we got our own class.

<_< The class had a set of rules that stated, if the district offered a G-1 gas hydro class, NO G-1 hydros could be run in X hydro Period !!

G-1 is a factory engine class like Zenoahs and such, No QD's or J&G's allowed.

We have no class for QD's & J&G's ... AKA: billet engines.

So as it stands, IF someone wanted to built a Billet engine powered gas hydro they could race it in X hydro against the nitro boys ... to date sense getting our gas hydro class, no one has.

:unsure: For now we have peace among the Big rigger guys.

Scott

 

[Jay Stone]

I am against it. I am switching over to mostly gas myself, and I am still against it.

THE BS argument about switching over to NITRO on a gas motor, and we'll see. Give me a break. A good 26 CC zenoah going up against good 15 CC Kalistratov/CMB/Picco - yeah, thats comparing apples to apples alright. 11 cc difference. And dont tell me it doesn't make a difference, because a Twin Engine 30 CC nitro boat being used in comparison would draw the defense of the gas guys that its 4 CC more..

Gas has come a long way. No doubt about it. Nitro rules are a bit vague in some instances and need to be updated. Gas Rules are new and are up to date to cover most current concerns. NAMBA District 7 has never allowed the GAS boats to run in the same class as NITRO boats. Just as all districts should.

And if a district allows gas to run with nitro in a class, the class shouldn't be called X or F Hydro/Mono - it should be called OPEN.

Just my 2 cents.

 

[Ian Inverarity]

In Australia, there is a funny rule in the Gas rules
14.3.3 Any brand Mono, Hydroplane or Tunnels allowed, but must be run in their respective classes.

Although this appears under the Hull specification banner, if it has a Gas engine it must be run in the respective class, for example 16-25cc Mono, Tunnel or Hydro.

It's funny how rules can be interpreted.

Is there anything like this in IMPBA or NAMBA rules?

Grub - using a big spoon to stir

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Hey Grub,

Even more specific under our rules, under Section 4: Competitors;

"4.4 Engine classes are as detailed in Section 7.3. A boat will not be permitted to compete outside its designated engine and/or hull classifications. Should there not be sufficient entries (3 boats) to consitiute a class, competitors will be given the opportunity to upgrade to the next engine class in the Hull classification, if possible."

The first sentence is of particular interest in this case. While a zenoah (or QD etc) is legal under our rules for the X engine class there is little doubt that their [SIZE=14pt]designated[/SIZE] class is actually 16-25cc Petrol or 35 Open Petrol, so if there is the numbers for that class then they are not allowed to run outside of it. B)

Nitrocrazed racing: Old ground.

 

[Danny Bull]

I too in principal am againt running gas with nitro but at a club level I'm sure you do what you have to to make up the numbers on the day. I fully agree with running only within a class when there is sufficent numbers to do so. I'm not versed with the rules of the IMPBA or NAMBA but can see they have lot more classes for gas designated by engine capacity but in Australia we only have 6 classes for gas and 19 for glow which is fine. Glow has been around a lot longer than gas so that is to be expected.

I wonder what issues will arise out of this, I've just finished building/ converting 2 Sikk 27cc gas engines to methanol, that is they have no spark ignition, flywheel or traditional carby. They have glow plugs and I'm using a Picco 90 carby on each. I have developed these engines primarily to use in my twin offshore cats but with a view to also use them individually in say, X class mono or hydro. Are they a gas engine or are they a glow engine ?

There are still gray areas within the rules that are open to interpretation, positive outcomes can only be achieved when there is good communication between the greater model boating public and those in an offical capacity in there respective organizations.

Cheers, Danny.

 

[Tim Kish]

I have know problem with gas and nitro running

together in the F-Hydro class.

IMPBA has way to many classes as it is and the competition is

so watered down that at smaller races you hardly ever see more than a handful

of boats in a class anymore.

Do we really want more classes ?

Plus the last thing you want to do is turn someone away from the hobby (yes hobby)because he wants to use a different type of fuel in an OPEN hydro class.

He will likely not come back .

Gas is quickly taking over the hobby there is a ton more money being spent on R&D for gas than nitro .There has been huge adavancements in gas and dare I say almost none in nitro in the last few years .

Many people believe that nitro is dying a slow and painful death and the large engine classes will be the first to go.

So We may find ourselves asking if we can run with gas boats some day .

I don't run gas boats I love nitro ( :blink: )but I would hate to think people would be treated any different just because of the fuel they run in their toy boat.

Tim Kish

 

[Don Ferrette]

"I don't run gas boats I love nitro ( blink.gif )but I would hate to think people would be treated any different just because of the fuel they run in their toy boat."

I have no ills with gas boats either (I've run them & may one day run them again) and this has NOTHING to do with being treated differently based on fuel. What is DOES involve is all the BS that was put out back when the gas guys did NOT want to run with the nitro boats. We endured tons of pissin' & moanin' about how the gas guys need & deserve thier OWN classes. Then they got them. And ALOT of them. Next it was they deserve their own NATIONAL event. They got that too. Now that the gas boats are running well & in some instances can run as fast as nitro they want to come back into the nitro classes?? I don't think so folks. The gas guys wanted all these special rules, classes & events well now they got them so that's where they should be. Keep in mind I still feel at SMALL local races if you are lacking boats for either gas or nitro & you want to make it an OPEN class with all drivers in AGREEMENT that should be ok. I'm always for making it possible for someone to run if you find yourself short on boats. But at large races or national events where there are no shortages then it's definitely no way. Also take note how the gas rules were sooo carefully written as to prevent any chance to throw a nitro boat in there. It's a double standard & that makes it wrong. You want to let gas run in nitro, well you better be prepared to let a nitro guy mix it up with a gas class. But we all know this won't happen because the gas people will be oh so quick to run right back to the very rule book they choose to exploit. Well as I have pointed out MANY, MANY times before this arguement of gas in nitro is not even valid BASED ON WHAT IS IN THE IMPBA RULEBOOK. Gas guys seem to think it's ok just because the nitro engine class displacement list in the rulebook does not say nitro only. Well this could be resolved by the tech committee with a simple one word addition to the header of the chart, add the word "glow". But that's really not the point because what continues to piss me off is how everyone seems to ignore the last sentence, which is written seperately under the displacement chart & I quote-

Note: For Large Scale Gasoline engine classes see section "I", Large Scale Gasoline.

This one sentence is telling you IN PLAIN ENGLISH if you run a gas engine you go to ANOTHER PART OF THE RULEBOOK!! It does not say you might also try or may we suggest, it says SEE SECTION "I" which tells you that you are in the WRONG section!!

What is so friggin' difficult to understand?? Why do people seem to think it's ok to IGNORE this sentence?? I'm sooo sick of the ever ongoing rulebook manipulation, THAT is what takes the fun out of it!!!!! :angry: :angry: :angry: :angry: :angry:

 

[Jerry Wyss]

It's "funny", I think the rules are pretty well known, there's always someone pointing them out to you now and then. Just makes me wonder "Why" someone

would ask the "starting" question? I think it's the "Age Old" problem of "Never Satisfied" :huh:

 

[BigChuck]

Well, Guys. It would seem that someone has taken to SETTING US UP. This is not about wheater we want gas in nitro class. TRUST ME. <_<

This is about GAS" Mike T, you made this statement on another board" GOING ON IT OWN AND SEPERATING from IMPBA all together............ " We have more GAS than NITRO."

I said this before. There are powers at work here that have a plan, one the will see IMPBA DISOLVED and only one orginization remain. And make its members separate based on gas or nitro. It is WORKING.

 

[Don Ferrette]

Well, Guys. It would seem that someone has taken to SETTING US UP. This is not about wheater we want gas in nitro class. TRUST ME. <_<
This is about GAS" Mike T, you made this statement on another board" GOING ON IT OWN AND SEPERATING from IMPBA all together............ " We have more GAS than NITRO."

I said this before. There are powers at work here that have a plan, one the will see IMPBA DISOLVED and only one orginization remain. And make its members separate based on gas or nitro. It is WORKING.  

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Mike T. is this true?? It surprises me that YOU would be part of something like this. Well if this is true & this is the thanks we get, after all the tremendous EFFORT the IMPBA went thru to make all the gas classes & rules then don't let the door hit you gas guys on the a$$ on the way out. I would hope to think this is NOT the mindset of the majority of gas guys, but if it truly is then so be it. I'd like to know where they plan to run if they are no longer part of the IMPBA. At IMPBA sanctioned lakes? I don't think so. The organization has existed LONG before the gas boats came along & will continue on, especially if I have anything to do with it. I simply will not let a group of ungrateful individuals bring down the organization. I enjoy this (the running boats part) way too much & have met way too many GOOD people to allow this to happen.

 

[Tim Kish]

Well, Guys. It would seem that someone has taken to SETTING US UP. This is not about wheater we want gas in nitro class. TRUST ME. <_<
This is about GAS" Mike T, you made this statement on another board" GOING ON IT OWN AND SEPERATING from IMPBA all together............ " We have more GAS than NITRO."

I said this before. There are powers at work here that have a plan, one the will see IMPBA DISOLVED and only one orginization remain. And make its members separate based on gas or nitro. It is WORKING.  

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That would be a sad day for both gas and nitro modellers.

We are already a very small organization we can't afford to get any smaller .

Tim K

 

[Joe_Knesek]

Didn't we go through all this crap last winter? As I recall, the weedwackers promised to kick butt @ the Nat's. What happened?