Experiment #1

[user 115]

Sounds like something to try, Tom.. Spoon the sponsons..

Charley

 

[Jerry Wyss]

Sounds like something to try, Tom.. Spoon the sponsons..
Charley

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I think He's tried that Charley :huh:

 

[user 115]

Maybe the Taco Bell spork/foon??

 

[TomMoorehouse]

Sounds like something to try, Tom.. Spoon the sponsons..
Charley

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I think He's tried that Charley :huh:

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i had one of each kind on the boat at the same time. it did an odd hoping dance. it's been too long to remember exactly how it went.

 

[Jerry Wyss]

Maybe the Taco Bell spork/foon??

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Are You Canadian?? :lol:

 

[Jerry Wyss]

Kidding aside, there are some "realitive" things goin' on here,,take for example

how much faster a tunnel is on water with a slight "Ripple" and how their so much

slower on "glass" water :huh: I thought that this situation was due to the "air bubble bearing" thing :unsure:

 

[user 115]

Tom,

Maybe you needed to have both sponsons the same way?

Charley

 

[TomMoorehouse]

Tom,

Maybe you needed to have both sponsons the same way?

Charley

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well.... i didn't do it on purpose it was like one of the first sponsons i ever built.... heck i think it was in my first year of racing at the illini pond???

 

[user 115]

Sounds like a good excuse to build and go play with boats!!

Charley

 

[Ed Radz]

Okay guys

I did a little reading & maybe we are looking at the wrong thing. A key word in Bernoullis principle is "fluid". Fluid can be a liquid or a gas. The foil shape gives us a low pressure on the top of the foil which flies the boat. What I think Rod is trying to tell us is something is needed ( another low pressure ) to keep the boat from blowing off. Now we got a balancing act. Enough of a low to keep from blowing off, but not too much to keep the boat sucked down in the the water and losing speed. What ever Rod is alluding to does not necessarily need to be in the water, it could be something in the tunnel in the air. Air is still a fluid. Whatcha think? :blink: :blink: :blink: Sporks ain't gonna cut it Gene! BTW, what mod did you do to the toaster?

Later!

Ed Radz

 

[[email protected]]

It would just be easier if he TOOK the time to explain it!

 

[Jerry Wyss]

It would just be easier if he TOOK the time to explain it!

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Well, I think He did mostly,,He did say "anything that touches water" and used

such as "lift" , "CG", "Boat length" etc, in a separate group. Apparently, what

He and Tommy came upon, Rod would rather you find it by "diggin'" a little,,

Kinda the "give a man a fish or teach him how to fish" thing :huh: I can respect

that,,really I'd rather have it that way Or Not!

 

[Ed Radz]

Absolutely Rod has given us the clues. Its up to us to dig in & experiment to find the answer. He ain't gonna give it away!

 

[J Solinger]

Tried an experiment. Took two plastic spoons, roughed up the convex side of one with 60 grit sand paper. After running them both under water I found that the roughed up one had a little less pull to it.

From this test I conclude that texturing your sponson bottoms, even with some 220 paper, will help break the suction. A person could be a little creative and texture certain zones for different effects.

 

[user 115]

Rod will help anyone of you out, anytime of the day. He would rather talk to you on the phone than type on the keyboard. Also, be prepared to talk about what you are asking and by all mean, listen. It's truly an education to talk to Rod.

Sure he's as full of BS as the next guy :lol: , but he does not have speed secrets. As he has said 1,000 times. There are no speed secrets, you just have to ask.

The spoon has nothing to do with sandpaper or parachutes. It's an exercise in high/low pressure and the affects on an object.

Think of the spoon as a large, rounded sponson with dull edges. What happens? It gets sucked into the water.. Is that what you want your sponson on your tunnel, hydro doing?

Charley

 

[Joe Reese]

Have you ever wet sanded the bottom of the boats ?

Befor a wet sand add water to the surface and rub your finger over and it will stick, now wet sand the surface and rerub with finger the finger wont stick.

Added lube to the ripple bearings or added lube to the glass water running.

And on to the rake running surface that allows air to brake the suction of speed.

How hardwould it be to add a 64th convex or vicversa to test? 1/16 is too much.....

 

[J Solinger]

I don't expect to be handed the meaning of life. :lol: :lol: But it's fun to pick at some of the nits of the sport. This is an interesting subject to consider. This is something that can be brought into play for a number of reasons and on any hull type.

 

[user 115]

Joe,

And applied to many parts of a boat!!

Charley

 

[Tommy Lee]

There's alot of "Drag",,funny there's much less on the concave side :blink: So we make our "Bling Bling Blocks" like a "ski-jump" :lol: kidding h34r:

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Jerry,

Seriously,try backing the spoon into the stream of water.

What does the spoon do?

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Yeah,,,Draws it in,,works just like "lift" on a aircraft wing,,,OR NOT!!

I do remember Jim Auguston ( remember Him?) making "wedges"

for "stumblin'" blocks about 10 - 12 years ago. :huh:

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All humor aside <_< ,I was trying to give to you what took me 4 years,15 to 20 boats and literally hundreds of trips to the pond to learn.It is all so simple once you understand it.

Much to my chagrin,I have finally realized that you can't get there from here without going through the process.Honestly,the spoon tells it all.

What you experienced with the spoon is the Bernoulli principle.Research it.

If you are still so inclined then go to work,experiment and really understand the principle and learn how to apply it.This is my last "post" on this subject,forever.

If you have a question or want to talk about it I will be glad to discuss it on the phone or face to face but not on this G.D. computer.

Last words......I "know" this to be true.The Bernoulli principle is the only design parameter that cannot be compromised and this applies to tunnels,hydros and monos."Anything" that touches the water can and will feel the effects of the Bernoulli principle.Remember I said "ANYTHING"!

Everything else lift,CG,length,width,tunnel depth,dihedral,prop placement etc,etc,etc can all be compromised depending on boat application.If you want a boat that does "nothing stupid" and is blister fast,Bernoulli cannot be compromised.

If you have a boat that spins out,hooks,nose steers,doesn't launch worth a sxxt,will not air out,turn well or won't turn left then Bernoulli has been compromised.

There isn't a fiberglass boat made that ain't a can of compromises.

I am positive that there is more out there to be learned and yet to be discovered.

I know of one little design item right now just waiting to be found.It absolutely solves one of the tunnel boats biggest faults.

Tommy Lee discovered this item in 1996 and its success can be traced right back to the spoon.Really neither Tommy or myself never really knew what he had until about 18 months ago and by that time Tommy was no longer able to go on.I no longer have the passion or desire to continue racing at the level I once attained so this item is just going to sit here in the bank until someone earns it.

I am positive that someday somebody really dedicated into tunnel testing and design will run across this find and believe me they will have earned it.They will have to really understand what makes a tunnel boat work before they will even recognize what they are trying to solve.Right now this tunnel boat fault is just mutually accepted as the nature of the beast.

I suspect before it is done this discovery will be the next quantum step in tunnel speeds.

[side note.....Mark Anderson and I introduced Jim Auguston to the wedges on the sponson fronts at the 2nd Kingdome scale race in 1989.Mark and I put them on his boat between heats so he could get the boat through the corner.I still talk to Jim on a regular basis.

I just talked to Jim a week ago.He is retired and doing great flying his ultralite,restoring a old shovelhead Harley and riding a Honda Goldwing.

I still have Jims Winston Eagle lobster S.A.W. boat here all repaired and ready to run. 8lbs-3oz. RTR with a Picco EXR .67]

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[Tommy Lee]

[Don'T know what's going on with this computer, guess I need to stay away from it. Anyway Rod you tried, maybe a few people are listening. I guess the old saying is true about leading the horse to the water.