Electronic lapscoring idea's.

[Danny Bull]

Well put Tim and I too have seen first hand the decline of numbers at the lake over the years and for many reasons, I have been one of them too of late. I've found getting others involved in the process of running an event, be it a club day or a speed event, very frustrating indeed. I don't have the answer for that one but perhaps charging $50 to race on a weekend might encourage some to get off there ass's and participate in the running of the days events if you say you'll waive the race fees for them if they help out and that would include unpacking and packing up the recovery boat, PA system and speakers, BBQ equipment, etc, etc, etc, at the end of the day too as well as making an appearance at the odd working "B" to cut grass around the drivers stand and general maintenance of club equipment and facilities.

As president and contest director for BMM in Queensland for many years in the 90's, I ran most of our club venues and ampba sanctioned speed events, the crap I had to put up with from some still leaves a bad taste in the mouth 3 years on.

Well I hope that didn't sound too bitchy, just calling it how I see it.

Merry Christmas all, Danny.

 

[Bart Drieghe]

Like Dave (Marles ) Said , We are using the AMB system in Europe and after a few years of using it i can say this:

A : NO MORE nagging about a few seconds or not ( we run 30 mins and with prequalifications it can be close , even up to 1/10th of a second )

B : Lots of people see things , LOTS of times the system shows different !

C : a real finish line

D : Going to races Costs a lot , knowing that the club wants to do as much as possible to let things go fair is always nice . ( and by this i haven't said that there are clubs who are doing things on an unfair way !)

E : computers , who hasn't got one ?? btw , it doesn't need to be the latest version , we are running with a pretty old one wich costed us a few bucks , a small screen and a lended printer , costs were very low for that , only the system was expensive .

and being honest , now we don't need to find people to count the laps ( and the ladies are very glad for that , lol they were the victims for that ) , now we don't need to find people to say who has won or not , everybody can work on his /hers boat during the races , only one person is needed to follow up the system .

I think the only thing bad on it is the COST of the system , in all other ways its pleasant .

and a last thing , this is the ending that i copied on a final of a race : now tell me , who can see this difference as u have to know that D.smeets was behind Y.costa seconds before the ending

1 A.Aykroyd GB 75 04,16

2 D.Smeets B 75 18,03

3 Y. Costa F 75 18,55

Regards ,

Bart

 

[mark poole]

I appreciate the replies...I did ask for them. My main concern with this is those who want to make it mandatory for sanctioned clubs. Here are my concerns......What is neccessary? Water to run on. Surveyed course. 6 orange floats to drive around. Retrieve boat. Radio impound. Frequency clip board. Clock. Other than this it is PEOPLE...people who understand the rules....all of the rules. I did not mention drivers stand. I remember when I first went to the races most clubs were not even using stands. Lot old the old guys who drove from the ground can outdrive most of you who have never driven from the ground. I guess you would not race without a drivers stand either. Now, I am not against advancement. I am against anything that is not neccessary, especially when it is going to mean more $$$$ for clubs, sanctions and participation. This is an attractive and competive form of racing and it does not take a lot of money. Boats are getting higher, motors are too. The IMPBA has done a good job with keeping fees down and insurance intact for all of us. It sounds like you have some hostility problems in your clubs. Read the rule book. Unsportsmanlike conduct is not tolerated. Some electronic device is not going to solve that problem either. And yes, I do have an idea other than holding fingers up. You will hear about it soon. Batteries not required.

 

[Bart Drieghe]

Not really willing to start a discussion on this but

It sounds like you have some hostility problems in your clubs. Read the rule book. Unsportsmanlike conduct is not tolerated.

huh ?? not at all , has nothing to do with that !

what i meant is , we got entries of about 150 to 250 boats each international race . ( this is FSR V )( Four classes )( Europe )

Each boat has to pay 2.5 $ ( or €) to enter ( extra). This is a small amount and on this way u get a bit paid back . I'm not sure how it goes in Germany but if not mistaken , there its one person who paid for the whole system , the organizing club(s) rents it from him , the person makes sure for the computer and organisation about the system ( antenna etc .)

btw , follow the link and go down on the page , u'll see how the antenna looks like , easy to install , easy to take away .

http://modelboatracing.co.uk/photos/duisbu...isburg2002b.htm

and another question Mark , lots of boaters are paying lots of $$$ or €€€ to get their boat on a high level , if we speak of 1500 $ and more , will 2 or 2.5 $ stop them from doing races ? Doesn't happen in europe ..

Another thing , the results are ready in a few seconds , no recounting needed , just pushing the PRINT button .

But like i said , this is FSR V

Regards ,

Bart

 

[TimD]

Guys,

Just like to say thanks to all for taking part in this discussion. Especially Mark because he has highlighted his particular concerns about going electronic!

Bart - thank you also for the link! How does that suspended loop work with FSR-H?

Tim.

 

[TimD]

Forgot to add this to last post. Doh!

Maybe a non compulsory system could be used at each clubs discretion. I'm sure that once a system is proven to work well in a region / country - other clubs would follow in the long term.... Ideally a standardised system would be preferable.

 

[Bart Drieghe]

Hi Tim ,

The Loop hangs on the left cause we run FSR V anti clockwise , in FSR H u can hang the loop on the right ( where the start is with the Hydro's if not mistaken , right ? )

The loop is btw , the antenna . Each boat has a small thingy with them , like a square inch thingy ( amb system) mounted on them , only thing needed is a hole of 8 mm i think .The antenna hangs around a foot high above the water , maybe a bit more .

My point about the system is only this , FSR V starts with a normal start , Hydro and Offshore have running starts , at that point its always the same , who has to say wether u started to soon ( read passed the starting line to fast ) and who hasn't done it ? This system is fair in all ways, if u passed to soon u'll see , if not , u'll see it also. I have seen on the WC in Poland that when u put some good guys together like Anders /Andy /Tony /etc that they all try to make a start as close as to the signal ( pretty obvious lol ), sometimes its really close of being to soon or just on time in the start .The system will tell ya the reality .

There are some minor things on it though , lots of people attach it but not good so when they get hit or so it falls of . This must be surely get checked up !

Ah lol , i know i can't hide that im FOR the system , it solved a lot of "problems " for us and i only wished they would be using it for the WC in Slovenia next year .Wether its usefull in Hydro is a question that the Hydro guys can tell , I think it is in Offshore .

PS if u check up the site of Robert Daniel u'll be seeing some more pictures of the Antenna /system

REgards ,

Bart

btw , never has an organizing club been forced to use it but after a while lots of clubs saw the benefits of the system .

 

[Bart Drieghe]

and another thing that i forgot lol

What ever system u'll be buying , each system has its failures and Pro's .It took us some time to get it going like its going now , experience/tricks and tips are going around now in europe about it .

U can't expect that whatever system u'll be buying that it will work from the very first second , its like those engines lol , test , test ,test lol

regards ,

Bart

 

[mark poole]

Hey Bart! You guys drive on the wrong side of the road and race backwards too?...LOL...Just kidding. Do you race outboard boats? Sounds like you also do

Lemans (beach) starts?

 

[Bart Drieghe]

Hiya MArk ,

That driving on the wrong side is for the UK guys lol lol

but we do have lemans Starts , thats normal for FSR V .( oh lol and the racing backwards too lol )

We aren't running much offshore boats or so yet but i think that will change in a few years.

 

[Stein Tumert]

The Loop hangs on the left cause we run FSR V anti clockwise , in FSR H u can hang the loop on the right ( where the start is with the Hydro's if not mistaken , right ? )

As I posted earlier, the Norwegian Model Power Boat Association (NMPBA ) has used the AMB system for some years with good result. It is used for FSR-H (outriggers) and FSR-O (Offshore) boats running an oval heat racing course. We do not run FSR-V (enduro type 30 minute heats) boats in Norway.

The antenna (loop) we set up runs from the start clock to the middle of the drivers stand. However, it should be easy to set up the loop where it needs to be (start/finish) according to the various rule books.

The system is flexible, start signal can come from an external signal device (i.e. the startclock) or manual on the PC (like LeMans start for outboard catamarans)

I agree with the comments from Bart. The system takes away discussions, not because people state wrong things on purpose, but because sometimes people do not see exactly what happens. Things can happen very fast when 4 - 8 boats run side by side an high speeds.

Also, NMPBA was recently awarded the arrangement of the NAVIGA World Model Speed Boat championship for 2006. This is for FSR-H, O, and V classes. We are currently in talks with AMB, and if successful, plan to run the whole WC in Norway with the AMB system.

Regards,

Stein Tumert

NMPBA

 

[Bart Drieghe]

regards ,

BArt

Thats the way Aha aha

i like it aha aha lol