Clean Start Window

[Samuel Hagan JR]

Don't start hating on CD's , half the time we are lucky to have them . They take a lot of heat up there on the stand so don't scare them away .

Yep. I quit being a CD after this year. I’d rather be in the retrieve boat.

 

[Mark Grannis]

Bill, is there a way of adding a "color of boat" section to your program? Being mistakenly called over while being the third boat across the line is frustrating. I ended up first in the back as was identified as the second of two boats jumping.

I do appreciate all CD's efforts to get it right, and it will always be a tough job. I like the window, but you still need two more sets of eyes.

 

[MarkF]

I think the main purpose of the window is the cd looks at the window with the line going across the lake, on the start so he can see who is over and call them right away. Taking a picture is just something it can do if you choose to not believe the cd and want to argue the call. The cd still makes the call just like before, but he is looking through the window which gives a view of the lake with a distinctive line going across.

 

[Mark Bullard]

I do not know if most of the racers posting know how to call a start. It is very easy to do. A clip board held up in front of you with the edge of the left side line up with your point on the other side of the lake or point in the lake like the center of a clock. Now when the clock stops and if any boat is passed the clip board it is over. Now how close you call it is up to the CD. Like if not all the boat is showing it would be a good start. If you had three boats that you could just see the nose of the boats it could be a good start. But how the CD calls it is up to him and it should be explain in the drivers meeting.

 

[JimZaremski]

Bill, is there a way of adding a "color of boat" section to your program? Being mistakenly called over while being the third boat across the line is frustrating. I ended up first in the back as was identified as the second of two boats jumping.

heh, this reminds me of a Thunderboat heat we had at the Mini Gold Cup a few years ago. If I recall correctly, all of the boats in one particular heat were red & white.

 

[Grimracer]

Happen to me at the masters one time 3 red boats in one heat.(Volunteering and trusted to help I was....)...thunder boats too.. all looked the same.... I took a ton of **** for that because I have only one good working eye...and the guy busted my ass for that... nucklehead... I dont play games like that.. christ.. its in your BEST interest to put a color stripe down the side of the boat or something.. dont lay that crap on the CD..

... holding up a clip board works nice..

Grim

 

[Brad Christy]

Tom,

Not hating on CDs at all. The CD's word is law. BUT....

I will repeat what I stated earlier in this thread: We keep saying "CD" when it's likely not the CD who would be calling the start from the pic snapped at the start. There is generally somebody on a mic that calls "Good start" or "Yellow boat is over". It would be THIS person who is looking at the laptop (or whatever) when the pic is snapped, giving a instant, still view of the start, at the exact moment the clock hit zero. This person would not be looking at the course at all at this time, but, rather, the laptop, with the mic in hand, ready to make the call. This could easily prove to be the single most effective tool in making the CDs one job, enforcing the call at the start of the race, all that much easier. This call would come over the loudspeaker before the first boat even reaches the entrance bouy to turn one, and everybody could trust the call to be accurate because it was made off a still pic, not by observing the start in real time.

 

[Mark Grannis]

Most efficient judging proccedure.. Put 3 people on the stand. Center guy calls the start. Left judge confirms which boat or boats jump while right judge watches lanes and the left turn. Right judge continues to monitor the left side and possible turn entrance & exit lanes. Left judge while identifying the jumped boats watches the lead boats and continues to judge the right side in the same manner as right judge. The center judge keeps track of leaders and areas where multiple boats are racing.

This 3 person method allows judges the ability to talk to the judge on the microphone without turning their head and abandoning their assigned turn.

The color of boat allows quickest method of identifying even if 3 red boats are in a 6-8 boat heat. The colors can be produced by swapping clipboards with the pot boss. This procedure also sets a pace where racers need to be early and check in with pit boss.

I like the glass idea as long as it doesn't strain communication between judges and spotters, yet prefer the clipboard...no boat no jump. Sorry about the highjack...

MG

 

[MarkF]

Clip boards are moving targets and don't give a definitive line for racers to use as a start. The window never moves and racers can get use to where the start is, and not by where the cd just happens to be holding his clip board. Iv'e seen clip boards be used to shield from the sun right before they drop it for the start. Racers need to know where the start is just as much as the cd.

 

[Shark]

I think the main purpose of the window is the cd looks at the window with the line going across the lake, on the start so he can see who is over and call them right away. Taking a picture is just something it can do if you choose to not believe the cd and want to argue the call. The cd still makes the call just like before, but he is looking through the window which gives a view of the lake with a distinctive line going across.

Clip boards are moving targets and don't give a definitive line for racers to use as a start. The window never moves and racers can get use to where the start is, and not by where the cd just happens to be holding his clip board. Iv'e seen clip boards be used to shield from the sun right before they drop it for the start. Racers need to know where the start is just as much as the cd.

This is exactly what the CSW ( window ) does for the CD making the calls.. It gives the CD a FULL VIEW of the start without having to "OBSTRUCT" any part of his vision as the boats come down the start line....

This "clipboard" concept is truly a JOKE in the grander scale of things. The CD has to view the lanes as the boats approach the starting line... Presently, this 'Starting line" is an imaginary line that moves positions as the CD never stands in the same location and even the slightest tilt of the head will move the line. However, with the CD holding up a clipboard and obstructing his vision of the boats approaching the start line, how can he tell if any of those boats are zig zagging, leaving their lanes or infracting upon other boats??

The CSW gives you full field of vision without ANY obstruction of vision. Its defined LINE across the lake stays consistently in the same location and as was stated by MARKF, and there can be no wavering of the line for the entire weekend.

Look, this is the 21st century, and we have the tools and technology to make a real difference at our races that would lead to fewer conflicts or ill feelings. In the begining, I said that we have used outdated and unreliable methods for decades, and while there has been conflicts, arguments and ill feelings over those years, nobody has really found a way to simplify the start calls..

I like the camera idea where it snaps a photo at the start buzzer, and I would like to see that pursued where it can be implimented with some efficiency.

How anyone can argue against a clear piece of glass that gives the CD a defined line, a clear view of the track and the bonus of having the start recorded is really mind boggling.

What it comes down to is truly this...

Those that oppose the CSW believe they are making the "Right Calls", the "Good Calls", but in reality, they dont want to use the window because they just dont want to get "called out" for making bad ones.

The CSW isnt about starting arguments on the starts, its about eliminating them. We proved that we can reduce the number of conflicts on the starts by simply memorializing them on camera and this led to a greater "TRUST" of the calls by the competitors.

This is so simple and so easy its not even funny. I liked the idea of the three judges, two corner and one start line judge whose position is stay at the window and control the camera and call the start.

I am sorry, but everytime I read how someone prefers to block half their vision with a clipboard just makes me laugh. With boats coming to the start line weaving or zigzagging to make the clock, you need BOTH of your eyes on the water with a full view to not only "JUDGE" the start, but to call lane infractions. With a clipboard, you will have so many UNCALLED lane infractions because the CD doesnt have a panoramic view of the approaching boats...

During my Clubs Race, I stood directly behind the window on all starts and the calls were so easy. What we found was that the drivers were more respectful of where that line was, knowing it wasnt moving, knowing that it was being recorded and knowing that "consistency" was the rule of the day. It not only kept the drivers in check, but as a CD, it kept me in line with proper calls with no Royalty calls, Gimmies or Favoritism towards any drivers...

We reviewed a few calls on the first day, and the majority of those reviews were for GOOD calls, as the drivers just wanted to see how close they came to jumping. We didnt have any blowouts or drivers upset after a review. In the begining, we did have a few who thought someone jumped and asked to review, only to realize that they hadnt, and I posted one of those starts on this thread.

Something as simple as a phone camera recording solved that issue.

Look, this hobby has transitioned hundreds of times since 1970 when we started circle racing. In the begining, bull horns and a floating clock was our technology, then when audio clocks were suggested, people threw a fit and didnt want to change. When PA Systems came out, people threw a fit and complained about the cost, Heck, when it was suggested back when I was a kid that we move away from "Tether pole" competitions and change to oval racing, people threw a fit and complained...

But you know what?

We transitioned anyways and made this sport one of the best ones out there...!

This is just another simple transition that will make the racing aspect just one step closer to perfect. There really should be no argument here. This is a NO BRAINER, and I am surprised we havent created something like this before.

We just grew to accept the way it was, right or wrong, and now we have a chance for the "right" to outweigh the "wrong".

 

[Grimracer]

Its OK.. but a Clip Board (Joke) works well too.. to me.. maybe better as you are not privy to the boats approaching..

If I see a tip.. and its red.. its over

Maybe your clean start window would be better if the lead side was blacked out?

Grim

 

[Mark Grannis]

I believe the window allows anticipation...a blind clipboard does not. Ray you must have misunderstood me; nobody is blind. In my judging scenario the guy calling the start is not watching the lanes. The other two judges have that starting lane coverage. They cans see it better than some guy bending over a clipboard or a window.

I suggest one use the method which provides the individual start caller the most consistency.

MG

 

[Brad Christy]

Mark,

And that would be a camera snapping a pic at the strobe.

 

[Hydro Junkie]

Its OK.. but a Clip Board (Joke) works well too.. to me.. maybe better as you are not privy to the boats approaching..

If I see a tip.. and its red.. its over

Maybe your clean start window would be better if the lead side was blacked out?

Grim

I don't think totally blacking it out would work. Maybe take the line up to, for arguments sake, an inch wide. Sponsons hidden behind the line are okay, protruding out the left side is a lap penalty. That would also make boat IDing easier since you would be able to see the majority of the boat hulls rather than just the tip of the sponsons