aligning the engine and drive shaft.

[tmunn]

I am installing my engine to line up with the flex shaft housing and the front of the engine needs to be shimmed up.

or

The front of the motor mount needs to be shimmed up it is the mike hughes style that mounts thru the floor of the hull.

I filed off some material off the round part of 2 washers (aprox 1mm thick) so they would not hit the side of the engine and the bolts would pass through them.

Then I placed the washers between the mount and the engine mounting flange and tightened them down without loctite and everything lines up perfectly.

The only thing is there is now a very thin hardly noticable sloped space between the front mounting bolts and the rear.

Is this the correct way of doing this or should the engine flange be on the mount and under the mount between the mount and the floor of the boat be shimmed.

Thanks

terry

 

[Mark Bullard]

I am installing my engine to line up with the flex shaft housing and the front of the engine needs to be shimmed up.or

The front of the motor mount needs to be shimmed up it is the mike hughes style that mounts thru the floor of the hull.

I filed off some material off the round part of 2 washers (aprox 1mm thick) so they would not hit the side of the engine and the bolts would pass through them.

Then I placed the washers between the mount and the engine mounting flange and tightened them down without loctite and everything lines up perfectly.

The only thing is there is now a very thin hardly noticable sloped space between the front mounting bolts and the rear.

Is this the correct way of doing this or should the engine flange be on the mount and under the mount between the mount and the floor of the boat be shimmed.

Thanks

terry

Terry,

Was the shaft log tube already installed in the boat? Has that boat had a motor mount and motor in it already?

Mark

 

[tmunn]

Yes, the shaft log tube had been installed and the motor mount has benn drilled and tapped and the motor installed.

When I put my brass tube thru the shaft log the end of the crankshaft is too high.

I do not have my flex coupler yet and am still doing some dry runs and eye balling.

terry

 

[steve wood]

i would never shim the motor. if you have to shim anything shim the mount. best to fit the shaft to the motor if possible

 

[Mark Bullard]

Yes, the shaft log tube had been installed and the motor mount has benn drilled and tapped and the motor installed.
When I put my brass tube thru the shaft log the end of the crankshaft is too high.

I do not have my flex coupler yet and am still doing some dry runs and eye balling.

terry

Terry,

It sounds like you got ahead of your self or someone else did and did not get the shaft log tube in straight. There is one thing for sure that all motors are built the same. The C/L of the crankshaft is C/L of the mounting lugs on the motor. If you have a lath or know someone that has or you can do this with a old stub of a flex shaft. Take a piece of aluminum of anything you want to use and turn the diameter to 3/16" or 0.187. Then turn the next step to 1/4" or 0.250. Or you can use a old shaft stub and just slide the different sizes of brass tubing until you get to your shaft log size. I like about 2" to 2.5" lenght for the size that goes into the shaft log tube. With the motor and mount bolted in the boat and of course you must have a collet on the motor with your new "lineup-tool". You take the tubing and shape it to where it will slide very easy on to the lineup tool and the motor turns freely in the shaft log tube. After your happy that everything is straight and free you can glue the shaft log tube in the boat. By following this install you will have a perfect shaft setup everytime and even if you change motors to something else it will still line up on the shaft log tube.

Mark

 

[Tofastformellow]

i have had to do this with an eagle sg . the motor mount is 1mm to low at the front also .

so it was snapping drive shafts , enough for the previous owner to get rid of the boat ,

i fitted two thin spring washers under the front of the motor and very carefully pulled down all four engine mount bolts with even pressure .

its not the right way thou , mod the mount for correct fit .

however i havent broken a shaft since i got it , ( it allowed me to get it in the water )

and im waiting patiently for a modded aftermarket mount to get machined up .

Jason

 

[Buckshot]

I tried to use one of Mike's mounts and found that it just doesn’t fit the boat correctly. Due to the bottom of the hull where the motor mount attached being at an angle and pitched I decided to make my own so that when the mount is flat on the bottom of the boat the motor mount was flat where the motor attaches and at the correct angle.

Regards,

-Buck-

 

[tmunn]

thanks guys..i'll take the washers out

mark ,after several readings of how you make and aligning tool it sunk in and will make one.

Now that the shaft log is already installed my optiones are limited..

I may also be able to lower the front of the mount rails by removing some material where the front rubber isloaters go through the

sides of the mounts .

If i file the bottom of the holes in the side of the mount, making them a bit oblong and loosen the other 2 bolts that go through the side of the mount that would let the front drop.

I will get my collet first and then figure something out

Terry

 

[Mike Hughes]

Buck

I would like to defend my mount a little. It was designed by Phil for the most part. It is a slight change from the Mutt 2 mount I build. I have never actually mounted or measured a boat. Phil asked for a mount and I sent him something to try. He made some suggestions and I made corrections. I sent it back and he was happy and that is where the mount is today. It looks like the problems you have with my mount are the angle of the L shape plates where it mounts to the hull. From your picture it looks to 91 - 93 degree. Is this the only problem? It also looks like the speedmaster mount is much wider than mine. Is that correct?

Mike

Terry

Mark method of shaft alignment is the way to go. I made mine out of K&S brass. I have removable pieces to do 3/16 or 1/4 shaft logs. Works awesome. If not lined up properly, you will cut flex shafts. There is not enough material to mod the mount to get the angle you need. I would go with the washers under the mount. Even better would be the shim material the airplane guys use to shim motors. It is plastic and comes in 1,2,3 degree pieces. I think you can get them with a 3x3 size. I have some that are 2x2 for .20 size motors in the garage. I got mine at your LHS. Al else fails I can build you a new set of angles without the holes so you can set it up where it needs to be.

Mike

I am confused which way you need to go.

The front of the motor mount needs to be shimmed up

I may also be able to lower the front

 

[Mark Bullard]

thanks guys..i'll take the washers out
mark ,after several readings of how you make and aligning tool it sunk in and will make one.

Now that the shaft log is already installed my optiones are limited..

I may also be able to lower the front of the mount rails by removing some material where the front rubber isloaters go through the

sides of the mounts .

If i file the bottom of the holes in the side of the mount, making them a bit oblong and loosen the other 2 bolts that go through the side of the mount that would let the front drop.

I will get my collet first and then figure something out

Terry

Another thing you could do is after you get the line-up tool made. Install the motor in the mount and the line-up tool in the collet.

Putting some mold release on the bottom of the mount. Now slide the line-up tool into the shaft log tube. Shim by washers on the bottom of the mount to the hull until you have it like you like it. Use a little grease on the bolt that past thru the hull and hold the mount. Now use masking tape to build a dam around the motor mount in the hull. You can then float the mount in the hull with expoxy. This will fill all areas under the mount and make a good bed under the motor mount. Also you should sand a clean the bottom of the hull before you float the mount. But if the shaft log tube is real bad it might be a good idea to just cut it out and do it over.

Mark

 

[Mike Hughes]

Nice idea Mark.

 

[tmunn]

Sorry for the confusion. The part of the engine that faces the front of the boat has to be raised or the part of the engine that faces the Transom has to go down.

Buckshot has a good point mike when you mount your mount to the floor the rails that the engine lay on actually slant down toward the middle of the boat and not parallel.It is not bad and only requires a bit of pressure to open the mount and slide the engine in for a good snug fit.

The shaft log does not look too bad so i think once i get my collet I will float the mounts like mark suggested.

That is an excellent idea.

I was going to make wedge shaped thin plywood an place them between the hull and mount.

I still may and epoxy them instead of the washers.

Thanks alot guys.

Terry Munn

 

[Joe_Knesek]

Mark I basically did what you suggest using JB Weld just to have a level surface to mount the motor to. The boat as a slight vee under the mount and although it doesn't really cause a problem. I just didn't like putting unneeded pressure on the motor.

Terry it would be easier to just cut the tube out and install a new one without having to jack with the mount.

 

[P THOMAS]

Terry all you need to do is pull out the shaft tube from the hull and enlarge the hole a bit and redo the alignment. Those boat only have a round hole drilled in the back of the belly pan. Im sure you can drill a round hole. Then get your motor mounted on the mount and with the collet installed, use that method Mark explained, Those Hughes mounts have enough flex to compsensate for the angle of the floor dont worry about that, just get the motor centered and then line up the shaft tube to it. If you want more room under the flyweel for the starter belt, the inside hull can be cut out.

Gee :blink:

 

[Buckshot]

Mike,

No need to defend yourself. Your mounts are fine but they where not what I personally thought was needed. There is enough flex in the rubber buttons to compensate for the angled tub bottom, but in my opinion that is not the correct way to set up a boat. I was not implying that your hardware was bad just not what I used.

At the front of the mount the angle is around 93 deg. and 95 at the rear. The speed master mount is indeed wider than yours.

Please don’t take my previous post the wrong way

-Buck-

BuckI would like to defend my mount a little. It was designed by Phil for the most part. It is a slight change from the Mutt 2 mount I build. I have never actually mounted or measured a boat. Phil asked for a mount and I sent him something to try. He made some suggestions and I made corrections. I sent it back and he was happy and that is where the mount is today. It looks like the problems you have with my mount are the angle of the L shape plates where it mounts to the hull. From your picture it looks to 91 - 93 degree. Is this the only problem? It also looks like the speedmaster mount is much wider than mine. Is that correct?

Mike

Terry

Mark method of shaft alignment is the way to go. I made mine out of K&S brass. I have removable pieces to do 3/16 or 1/4 shaft logs. Works awesome. If not lined up properly, you will cut flex shafts. There is not enough material to mod the mount to get the angle you need. I would go with the washers under the mount. Even better would be the shim material the airplane guys use to shim motors. It is plastic and comes in 1,2,3 degree pieces. I think you can get them with a 3x3 size. I have some that are 2x2 for .20 size motors in the garage. I got mine at your LHS. Al else fails I can build you a new set of angles without the holes so you can set it up where it needs to be.

Mike

I am confused which way you need to go.

The front of the motor mount needs to be shimmed up

I may also be able to lower the front

 

[Mike Hughes]

Thats cool Buck

Just want to let it be known what was up. It would be tough to build anything to meet those angles. My mount could be tweaked with some pliers to make the angles match also. Not the best method. I would opt for the epoxy floated shims.

Mike

 

[tnrcboatracer]

Bedding the motor mount is the way to go. Shrinkage on the epoxy laminate makes every hull a little different. The rubber isolators are fairly soft in bending. Compression and shear are stiffer. If bedding with epoxy, add a little milled glass fiber and cabosil (fumed silica) to make it thixotropic. JB weld is also a great way to go. This is very much like glass bedding a rifle. If the hull is polyester, you can use rifle bedding compound which is polyester based. Don't forget to put mold realease (wax, PVA, vaseline) on the bottom of the mount, or it will be bonded to the hull permanently.

 

[tmunn]

Once I get my collet and make my alignment tool I will do the bedding process .

The shaft log is so well secured in place and only a small bit off it would be a shame to remove and re-install another one.

I haved milled fiberglass and epoxy.

Where can I get this and is it necessary??"cabosil (fumed silica)"

The front of the mount only needs to be raised aprox.1mm and the slight inward tilt in the mount only requires a slight amount of pressure with your finger for the motor to drop or slide into the mount's rails.

I am able to figure it out now.

Would there be any harm in leaving or epoxying the washers used or spacers under the front of the mount.

Thanks

Terry

 

[Mike Hughes]

Over time that washer is going to work its way through the glass hull. You would be better off fixing it right to begin with than having a bigger problem down the road. As a temporary fix it would work fine.

Mike

 

[tmunn]

Guys ,

I went to the garage for a bit to digest what i have learned today.

I removed the engine and mount, installed the engine in the mounts so the mount does not touch the side of the engine.

I then slid the mounts with engine installed down over the mounting bolts that were still sticking up through the hull,They lined up perfectly.I did not tighten them but the mounts were flat on the hull.

I forgot about and old collet I had here so i stuck it on the engine and installed a piece of 3/16 th piano wire in thru the log and into the collet I realized the piano wire was hitting the top of the log.

Indicating to me that the log was too low.

I then took a drill and removed the log once the brass was heated from the drill bit it pretty much spun right out.

I noticed the previous owner had made a small coller out of brass tubing for the outside of the log to make it harder for the log to spin or come out..GOOD IDEA

with the hole now considerably larger the piano wire is still in the upper portion of the hole.

Now I can get my alignment tool made install new collet , install the tool and line up and re-epoxy a new log..

It looks like i will have to remove some more material to alow the log to move up to alow for free spinning of the alignment tool.

I will now only have to float the small portion of the mounts that physically do not touch the hull due to the slope toward the center.

I hope I explained this well .I know what to do now And thanks a lot for your patience.

Terry