45 VAC into the Future

[FloridaScaleBoater]

Joe,

More will be on patrol in Charleston, also watch out for those South Florida fellas.

It is definitely a STOUT ENGINE!!! The 1657's are running aren't they?

Have Fun Testing,

Mark

Mark, I have seen most alum rod motors self destruct trying to run with the steel needle rod engines of today!!!!!!!!! the rest need to rethink there conn rod design. the 45 class hydro are swinging early years 60 hydro prop today.Thats asking a lot of load to be handled by a brass bushing rod......

Hey Joe;

Pulled er apart tonight,,, wasn't the rod!!!!

Not sure what made it lock up,, but there was a scuff mark on the crank, from contacting the front housing???

Dressed the spot on the crank,, all spins freely now,,, I dunno.

How much time on the bearing Rick? If they get to worn they will let the crank drop down and contact the seal area in the case. If the engine was really new, then it could be that CMB set the seal clearance too close...or there was some debris in that area.

Evening Andy,, pretty new engine really. Less than a gallon of Otto 45% It's an AA45 not a CMB.

Plan to change bearings while it's down

 

[David Bryant]

How has the new Picco P45 run in comparison to CMB 45 VAC? Any documented runs at over 80mph in heat racing configuration? I would think it is very capable engine as well.

Dave that Picco is the same internally as the Picco 45 EXR (blackhead) that Picco produced about 1997/98. I was using that engine in my Eagle SG heat race set up and it consistently ran 82 mph with an Irwin pipe using a 1462 cut to 56mm. I even used the stock rod and the stock carb with a spraybar modification. Never had a rod issue running 60% nitro, 15% oil. Picco's previous .45 to the black head was the EXR 4-port bluehead version and was a faster engine. This 4 - port bluehead is the engine that Stan Simpson ran 97 and 106 mph with in his Eagle SG. We never went as fast with the blackhead. I won the SAW event at the 1997 IMPBA Internats with the Bluehead. Average speed of two passes was 82 mph. That was with 60% nitro.

thanks Andy for your input. Interesting that the older (EXR 4-port Bluehead) is faster than the current P45 Bluehead? Are you guys opening-up the rod lower-end bushing I.D. clearance on new aluminum rods?

 

[David Bryant]

How has the new Picco P45 run in comparison to CMB 45 VAC? Any documented runs at over 80mph in heat racing configuration? I would think it is very capable engine as well.

Dave that Picco is the same internally as the Picco 45 EXR (blackhead) that Picco produced about 1997/98. I was using that engine in my Eagle SG heat race set up and it consistently ran 82 mph with an Irwin pipe using a 1462 cut to 56mm. I even used the stock rod and the stock carb with a spraybar modification. Never had a rod issue running 60% nitro, 15% oil. Picco's previous .45 to the black head was the EXR 4-port bluehead version and was a faster engine. This 4 - port bluehead is the engine that Stan Simpson ran 97 and 106 mph with in his Eagle SG. We never went as fast with the blackhead. I won the SAW event at the 1997 IMPBA Internats with the Bluehead. Average speed of two passes was 82 mph. That was with 60% nitro.

thanks Andy for your input. Interesting that the older (EXR 4-port Bluehead) is faster than the current P45 Bluehead? Are you guys opening-up the rod lower-end bushing I.D. clearance on new aluminum rods?

 

[Andy Brown]

How has the new Picco P45 run in comparison to CMB 45 VAC? Any documented runs at over 80mph in heat racing configuration? I would think it is very capable engine as well.

Dave that Picco is the same internally as the Picco 45 EXR (blackhead) that Picco produced about 1997/98. I was using that engine in my Eagle SG heat race set up and it consistently ran 82 mph with an Irwin pipe using a 1462 cut to 56mm. I even used the stock rod and the stock carb with a spraybar modification. Never had a rod issue running 60% nitro, 15% oil. Picco's previous .45 to the black head was the EXR 4-port bluehead version and was a faster engine. This 4 - port bluehead is the engine that Stan Simpson ran 97 and 106 mph with in his Eagle SG. We never went as fast with the blackhead. I won the SAW event at the 1997 IMPBA Internats with the Bluehead. Average speed of two passes was 82 mph. That was with 60% nitro.

thanks Andy for your input. Interesting that the older (EXR 4-port Bluehead) is faster than the current P45 Bluehead? Are you guys opening-up the rod lower-end bushing I.D. clearance on aluminum rods?

Dave, I always used the rods in stock form.

 

[Joe Wiebelhaus]

Joe,

More will be on patrol in Charleston, also watch out for those South Florida fellas.

It is definitely a STOUT ENGINE!!! The 1657's are running aren't they?

Have Fun Testing,

Mark

Mark, I have seen most alum rod motors self destruct trying to run with the steel needle rod engines of today!!!!!!!!! the rest need to rethink there conn rod design. the 45 class hydro are swinging early years 60 hydro prop today.Thats asking a lot of load to be handled by a brass bushing rod......

Hey Joe;

Pulled er apart tonight,,, wasn't the rod!!!!

Not sure what made it lock up,, but there was a scuff mark on the crank, from contacting the front housing???

Dressed the spot on the crank,, all spins freely now,,, I dunno.

Check the wrist pin, could be broken, but not in 2 pieces.........yet.

 

[Joe Warren]

Joe,

More will be on patrol in Charleston, also watch out for those South Florida fellas.

It is definitely a STOUT ENGINE!!! The 1657's are running aren't they?

Have Fun Testing,

Mark

Mark, I have seen most alum rod motors self destruct trying to run with the steel needle rod engines of today!!!!!!!!! the rest need to rethink there conn rod design. the 45 class hydro are swinging early years 60 hydro prop today.Thats asking a lot of load to be handled by a brass bushing rod......

Hey Joe;

Pulled er apart tonight,,, wasn't the rod!!!!

Not sure what made it lock up,, but there was a scuff mark on the crank, from contacting the front housing???

Dressed the spot on the crank,, all spins freely now,,, I dunno.

Picco 67/80 use to have this same problem we ran 3 case gaskets on them to space the intake hsg off the case and give the crankshaft more end play. I would be looking at the flywheel collet and the small brg very closely. One of them allow the crankshaft to move forward and come into contact with the hsg. If the flywheel collet is not worn? it must be the small brg it carries all of the thrust load. You may have smoked your small brg?

 

[Joe Warren]

What is considered the optimum combustion chamber volume for this engine 60 - 65 % nitro? Stu ? Andy ? Albert ?

Stu has some newier designed head buttons at 3.5..... They were 3.2 stk

 

[stan simpson iv]

How has the new Picco P45 run in comparison to CMB 45 VAC? Any documented runs at over 80mph in heat racing configuration? I would think it is very capable engine as well.

Dave that Picco is the same internally as the Picco 45 EXR (blackhead) that Picco produced about 1997/98. I was using that engine in my Eagle SG heat race set up and it consistently ran 82 mph with an Irwin pipe using a 1462 cut to 56mm. I even used the stock rod and the stock carb with a spraybar modification. Never had a rod issue running 60% nitro, 15% oil. Picco's previous .45 to the black head was the EXR 4-port bluehead version and was a faster engine. This 4 - port bluehead is the engine that Stan Simpson ran 97 and 106 mph with in his Eagle SG. We never went as fast with the blackhead. I won the SAW event at the 1997 IMPBA Internats with the Bluehead. Average speed of two passes was 82 mph. That was with 60% nitro.

Still Have that Blue head Picco motor. Got two of them,that one you talk about was the best one we owned.

 

[Jeff Lutz]

For the NonBelivers?? Just come on down to the waters edge.... and see what happens. Smoking Fast little engine that is just like a TIMEX...Takes a Beating and Comes Back TICKING for More........ The Alum/brass bushing rod motor days are over ... GO HARD GO V A C unless you want to tinker with your Rod after Every Round. I will not bash another mfgers engine. But I have seen many Alum rod 45 engines blown up this summer trying to run with the Vac45...

. Andy's Mac 45 had/has a steel rod in it also from 10or11 years ago. No doubt steel rod is the way to go,but most have ran them for 10 plus years now.

CMB built their first .45 in 1987 and I got one of the first ones. It was the GP. The next version was the Evo. My heat race Eagle consistantly ran 79 to 81 with the Evo in 1994. They had steel needle rods in them. I ran those .45's exclusively until 1995.In 1987 they also built a .21 similar to the current VAC .21 and it had steel needle rod too. For some reason the needles in the 21 would only last for one gallon of fuel. As long as we changed the needles before getting through a gallon they were fine. Much past one gallon and you'd be picking rod needles out of your piston. They later tried a bushed steel rod in the 21. The 21 Vavola as it was called back then did not stay in production long, but if one knew how to mod them they were as fast as the Nova of the day. I ran them for two years straight until Tidewater sent me a new Picco P-5 to try out. It did not run stock, but nothing more than a sleeve shim and head adjustment and it was instantly 4 mph faster than the .21 valvola.

Nothing wrong with a good aluminum rod in a properly designed engine. Steel needle rods are not a cure all. If the engine is not designed correctly even steel needle rods have issues. CMB and anyone who has used CMB engines for any length of time know this all to well. I have a box full of burned up, black & blue, crunched & split CMB rods and needles out of various CMB engines.

I did not go that far back in time when bringing up steel rods are nothing new. I also ran cmb 45's in the early 90's with steel rods. In the mid 1980's , 3 guys built 21 Coyotes in my boat club. They all had the cmb drum rotor 21 valvolas with steel rods and piston ports. They all ran very fast. Jeff Lutz

 

[Joe Warren]

For the NonBelivers?? Just come on down to the waters edge.... and see what happens. Smoking Fast little engine that is just like a TIMEX...Takes a Beating and Comes Back TICKING for More........ The Alum/brass bushing rod motor days are over ... GO HARD GO V A C unless you want to tinker with your Rod after Every Round. I will not bash another mfgers engine. But I have seen many Alum rod 45 engines blown up this summer trying to run with the Vac45...

. Andy's Mac 45 had/has a steel rod in it also from 10or11 years ago. No doubt steel rod is the way to go,but most have ran them for 10 plus years now.

CMB built their first .45 in 1987 and I got one of the first ones. It was the GP. The next version was the Evo. My heat race Eagle consistantly ran 79 to 81 with the Evo in 1994. They had steel needle rods in them. I ran those .45's exclusively until 1995.In 1987 they also built a .21 similar to the current VAC .21 and it had steel needle rod too. For some reason the needles in the 21 would only last for one gallon of fuel. As long as we changed the needles before getting through a gallon they were fine. Much past one gallon and you'd be picking rod needles out of your piston. They later tried a bushed steel rod in the 21. The 21 Vavola as it was called back then did not stay in production long, but if one knew how to mod them they were as fast as the Nova of the day. I ran them for two years straight until Tidewater sent me a new Picco P-5 to try out. It did not run stock, but nothing more than a sleeve shim and head adjustment and it was instantly 4 mph faster than the .21 valvola.

Nothing wrong with a good aluminum rod in a properly designed engine. Steel needle rods are not a cure all. If the engine is not designed correctly even steel needle rods have issues. CMB and anyone who has used CMB engines for any length of time know this all to well. I have a box full of burned up, black & blue, crunched & split CMB rods and needles out of various CMB engines.

I did not go that far back in time when bringing up steel rods are nothing new. I also ran cmb 45's in the early 90's with steel rods. In the mid 1980's , 3 guys built 21 Coyotes in my boat club. They all had the cmb drum rotor 21 valvolas with steel rods and piston ports. They all ran very fast. Jeff Lutz

Jeff the point was the Load on the Crank Pin and Brass Bushing Rod has been exceeded. If you mill 3 and Go HAMMER DOWN for 6 more laps with a Big prop with cup that will Haul the Mail the brass bushed Conn Rod is getting Smoked.. With the Vac 45 Current Design of BIG Transfer Ports, Needle brg Steel Rod & Parts avability makes it the engine of Choice for Many Outrigger Boaters. After you see a few perform. No More Need to explain....However Everyone has not seen them run.. if you guys make Charleston I`am sure you shall see.........

 

[Joe Warren]

Greg, Maybe they( Novas) will run well for many laps But when put to the test of racing Upper 80mph to 90 range will they last? We are talking rigger RPMsssss. I`am sure you know what type and size props were are speaking of here. I have Not seen a Nova 46 leading the pak on race day in the rigger classes anywhere I have raced this year... Florida Winter Nationals, Atlanta Spring Nationals, Evansville May race, Huntsville June race, Evansville Fall race... Could be a Great engine?? But I have not seen it... Has anyone else seen it? Florida racing & Indiana racing offers some of the fastest 45 class Rigger boating anywhere. Are you talking Rigger Rpmsssss or Sport 45 class racing Rpmsssss? But What I have seen are many of the Other New Current 45 engines that have Blown Up lower end Rods, Rod bushings, Crank Pins, Crankshafts trying to come to the front and run with the VAC 45. Now this is only my Personal Observations at the race site where the boats are competing and and failures have occured..

 

[Stuart Barr]

Joe,

Thanks for the nice comments Speed speaks for itself. What you saw at Evansville was the moderate prop. The better prop puts this boat at 90+ and am confident will break the world record by a bunch. If no turtles at Charleston, those folks may see something amazing.

Stu

 

[Jeff Lutz]

For the NonBelivers?? Just come on down to the waters edge.... and see what happens. Smoking Fast little engine that is just like a TIMEX...Takes a Beating and Comes Back TICKING for More........ The Alum/brass bushing rod motor days are over ... GO HARD GO V A C unless you want to tinker with your Rod after Every Round. I will not bash another mfgers engine. But I have seen many Alum rod 45 engines blown up this summer trying to run with the Vac45...

. Andy's Mac 45 had/has a steel rod in it also from 10or11 years ago. No doubt steel rod is the way to go,but most have ran them for 10 plus years now.

CMB built their first .45 in 1987 and I got one of the first ones. It was the GP. The next version was the Evo. My heat race Eagle consistantly ran 79 to 81 with the Evo in 1994. They had steel needle rods in them. I ran those .45's exclusively until 1995.In 1987 they also built a .21 similar to the current VAC .21 and it had steel needle rod too. For some reason the needles in the 21 would only last for one gallon of fuel. As long as we changed the needles before getting through a gallon they were fine. Much past one gallon and you'd be picking rod needles out of your piston. They later tried a bushed steel rod in the 21. The 21 Vavola as it was called back then did not stay in production long, but if one knew how to mod them they were as fast as the Nova of the day. I ran them for two years straight until Tidewater sent me a new Picco P-5 to try out. It did not run stock, but nothing more than a sleeve shim and head adjustment and it was instantly 4 mph faster than the .21 valvola.

Nothing wrong with a good aluminum rod in a properly designed engine. Steel needle rods are not a cure all. If the engine is not designed correctly even steel needle rods have issues. CMB and anyone who has used CMB engines for any length of time know this all to well. I have a box full of burned up, black & blue, crunched & split CMB rods and needles out of various CMB engines.

I did not go that far back in time when bringing up steel rods are nothing new. I also ran cmb 45's in the early 90's with steel rods. In the mid 1980's , 3 guys built 21 Coyotes in my boat club. They all had the cmb drum rotor 21 valvolas with steel rods and piston ports. They all ran very fast. Jeff Lutz

Jeff the point was the Load on the Crank Pin and Brass Bushing Rod has been exceeded. If you mill 3 and Go HAMMER DOWN for 6 more laps with a Big prop with cup that will Haul the Mail the brass bushed Conn Rod is getting Smoked.. With the Vac 45 Current Design of BIG Transfer Ports, Needle brg Steel Rod & Parts avability makes it the engine of Choice for Many Outrigger Boaters. After you see a few perform. No More Need to explain....However Everyone has not seen them run.. if you guys make Charleston I`am sure you shall see.........

Joe, I own a vac 45 and have been testing it for the last few weekends. I know its been 6 years since we have seen each other, but we are diffinitely making charleston. Wish you could have made it. Ive got some stock , wedge sharpened, x467's on the twin and the pipes out at 15" hoping that will be competitive. :lol:

 

[aaron alberico]

Greg, Maybe they( Novas) will run well for many laps But when put to the test of racing Upper 80mph to 90 range will they last? We are talking rigger RPMsssss. I`am sure you know what type and size props were are speaking of here. I have Not seen a Nova 46 leading the pak on race day in the rigger classes anywhere I have raced this year... Florida Winter Nationals, Atlanta Spring Nationals, Evansville May race, Huntsville June race, Evansville Fall race... Could be a Great engine?? But I have not seen it... Has anyone else seen it? Florida racing & Indiana racing offers some of the fastest 45 class Rigger boating anywhere. Are you talking Rigger Rpmsssss or Sport 45 class racing Rpmsssss? But What I have seen are many of the Other New Current 45 engines that have Blown Up lower end Rods, Rod bushings, Crank Pins, Crankshafts trying to come to the front and run with the VAC 45. Now this is only my Personal Observations at the race site where the boats are competing and and failures have occured..

Joe

I have many Novarossi 46 motors, This one in video

that day boat was clocked at 92mph in race trim, with the prop i was running the motor had to be turning a minium of 31000rpm to achive those speeds,i Know how to turn rpm'sssss!!!!!! this Nova 46 has been run hard for a good year and still has the orginal rod.... ....in the last year i have won many big events with the Nova 46 and been clocked at 88mph in a race.. (not testing) and by far fastest 40 rigger in OZ....

One of the fastest 40 mono's in OZ runs Nova 46..

Joe i've had/run VAC45 and latest Picco 45's all are good motors and can run strong, each to there own...

Regards Aaron

 

[aaron alberico]

Joe,

Thanks for the nice comments Speed speaks for itself. What you saw at Evansville was the moderate prop. The better prop puts this boat at 90+ and am confident will break the world record by a bunch. If no turtles at Charleston, those folks may see something amazing.

Stu

Stu

best of luck with the world record, sounds like you have your 40 rigger running real well..

Regards Aaron

 

[Joe Warren]

Greg, Maybe they( Novas) will run well for many laps But when put to the test of racing Upper 80mph to 90 range will they last? We are talking rigger RPMsssss. I`am sure you know what type and size props were are speaking of here. I have Not seen a Nova 46 leading the pak on race day in the rigger classes anywhere I have raced this year... Florida Winter Nationals, Atlanta Spring Nationals, Evansville May race, Huntsville June race, Evansville Fall race... Could be a Great engine?? But I have not seen it... Has anyone else seen it? Florida racing & Indiana racing offers some of the fastest 45 class Rigger boating anywhere. Are you talking Rigger Rpmsssss or Sport 45 class racing Rpmsssss? But What I have seen are many of the Other New Current 45 engines that have Blown Up lower end Rods, Rod bushings, Crank Pins, Crankshafts trying to come to the front and run with the VAC 45. Now this is only my Personal Observations at the race site where the boats are competing and and failures have occured..

Joe

I have many Novarossi 46 motors, This one in video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uIVTE-h4GvY that day boat was clocked at 92mph in race trim, with the prop i was running the motor had to be turning a minium of 31000rpm to achive those speeds,i Know how to turn rpm'sssss!!!!!! this Nova 46 has been run hard for a good year and still has the orginal rod.... ....

in the last year i have won many big events with the Nova 46 and been clocked at 88mph in a race.. (not testing) and by far fastest 40 rigger in OZ....

One of the fastest 40 mono's in OZ runs Nova 46..

Joe i've had/run VAC45 and latest Picco 45's all are good motors and can run strong, each to there own...

Regards Aaron

Nice Running Boat!! I have defended the brass bushing rod motors myself for 12-13 years....... & I have a pile of broken sxit to prove it. On Race Day I just need a fast engine that will stay together.. We all would have loved for Picco to have went to Needle brg steel rods 10 years ago but the factory said NO when the ODonnells suggested it.... Now Here we are 10 years later...... & the only engine they have in the Marine Market is the 45....While CMB went onto designing new engines with the Andy Brown Mac Engines and then the Vac Motors... Today they have a Full Line Of Marine engines. I`am sure Andy deserves more credit than he receives from helping develope the New Generation CMB`s. I dont have to tell you where the weak link is in the brass bushings motors. I`am sure you have a close eye on it after every run.........GOOD DAY MATE!!!!

 

[Joe Warren]

Joe,

Thanks for the nice comments Speed speaks for itself. What you saw at Evansville was the moderate prop. The better prop puts this boat at 90+ and am confident will break the world record by a bunch. If no turtles at Charleston, those folks may see something amazing.

Stu

Stu

best of luck with the world record, sounds like you have your 40 rigger running real well..

Regards Aaron

Aaron, Stu has found that he NOW has MORE time to Work on the Props....... Cause he Needs Less Time to Break the Engine Down to Check the ROD!!!!!!!! Everyones time is limited & I prefer to work on the props and the boat and not have the engine gutted out like a fish most of the time.. Maybe soon you can bring Your Nova Powered 45 to the USA and show us all Something Different? Andy`s TOP FUEL HYDRO RACE in Florida 2013 would be a great place to get these boats together!!!

 

[Stuart Barr]

Joe,

Yes, less time is spent on the motor. However, Mark Sholund does my props. I just give him my thoughts and he does it. We kept throwing more pitch to the VAC to see if we pull it down. The more pitch we gave it, the more it liked it. We have not seen the limit yet

 

[Joe Warren]

Greg, Maybe they( Novas) will run well for many laps But when put to the test of racing Upper 80mph to 90 range will they last? We are talking rigger RPMsssss. I`am sure you know what type and size props were are speaking of here. I have Not seen a Nova 46 leading the pak on race day in the rigger classes anywhere I have raced this year... Florida Winter Nationals, Atlanta Spring Nationals, Evansville May race, Huntsville June race, Evansville Fall race... Could be a Great engine?? But I have not seen it... Has anyone else seen it? Florida racing & Indiana racing offers some of the fastest 45 class Rigger boating anywhere. Are you talking Rigger Rpmsssss or Sport 45 class racing Rpmsssss? But What I have seen are many of the Other New Current 45 engines that have Blown Up lower end Rods, Rod bushings, Crank Pins, Crankshafts trying to come to the front and run with the VAC 45. Now this is only my Personal Observations at the race site where the boats are competing and and failures have occured..

Joe

I have many Novarossi 46 motors, This one in video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uIVTE-h4GvY that day boat was clocked at 92mph in race trim, with the prop i was running the motor had to be turning a minium of 31000rpm to achive those speeds,i Know how to turn rpm'sssss!!!!!! this Nova 46 has been run hard for a good year and still has the orginal rod.... ....

in the last year i have won many big events with the Nova 46 and been clocked at 88mph in a race.. (not testing) and by far fastest 40 rigger in OZ....

One of the fastest 40 mono's in OZ runs Nova 46..

Joe i've had/run VAC45 and latest Picco 45's all are good motors and can run strong, each to there own...

Regards Aaron

Aaron, It would be NICE if you STARTED YOUR OWN THREAD to PROMOTE THE NOVA ROSSI 46. This THREAD was to give others a Heads Up on the HIGH PERFORMANCE OF THE 45 VAC. .. Please refer back to Post #1....................................... Does this mean You Don`t Know JACK about the VAC??????

 

[shoboat]

Stu,

Check your mailbox in a few days, I have a new set up for you to try before the

Charleston Race. Hint: it is just another step up.

Thanks,

Mark