21 Hydro - HydroShock 21

[dschigoda]

This Japanese rigger appears to be the same or similar design as the J.A.E. rigger. Is it the same boat?

 

[Jorgen Andersson]

dschigoda

The Japanese rigger have had this design for many years.

The JAE riggers are VERY inspired by the Japanese style of design.

The JAE was even named JAPS from the start, but later changed to JAE.

Jorgen

 

[Jorgen Andersson]

Richard

I use the Valvola drum housing, the RSV housing made the engine very lame and with poor torque, compared with the Valvola, We were several top racers that did the same discovery in riggers.

No, I have not seen any performance gain with the PEEK drums, but less stress and you move the rotating mass to the flywheel instead.

Joel

Thanks for the nice words.

I have had several emails and PM´s about this already, I will see what I can do.

I will also speak to my contacts in Japan.

Thanks

Jorgen

 

[Jorgen Andersson]

Hello

Some more prop testing was carried out yesterday, with mixed results......

http://www.intlwaters.com/index.php?app=gallery&module=images&section=viewimage&img=6799

Jorgen

 

[dschigoda]

Wow! Would you happen to know what type of metal your props are made from? From the photo, it appears to be either aluminum or stainless steel?

 

[Jorgen Andersson]

The one in the photo is Beryllium copper.

This boat set up is hard on props, rpm is over 33.000 and the larger diamaters 49-53mm that I am testing at the moment, also comes into play here.

I clearly see better efficiency with larger diameter props for heatracing, so testing will continue.

Jorgen

 

[Terry Keeley]

Interesting stuff Jorgen!

Looks bigger than our "average" 20 hydro over here, is it?

I'm wondering how much it weighs ready to run without fuel?

I've thrown a couple blades too lately and am thinking of trying to heat treating them a little "softer". What process (temps etc) are you using?

 

[Jorgen Andersson]

Thanks Terry

I think that the size of the HydroShock is pretty normal, compared to a Eagle or JAE.

Weight is around 1700 grams RTR without fuel, a good heatracing weight in my opinion.

I have tried different methods when it comes to heat treating.

Last time I used this one:

Anneal: Raise to 1700F quench in oil

Stress relive: 240F/20min

Harden: 594F/40min

What method have you used?

I do think that we need to look into other materials than BC to be able to run more aggressive blade shapes with larger diameters, and still have thin blades.

Thanks

Jorgen

 

[Chris Wood]

BRING BACK STAINLESS STEEL.

i really like them but they are no more

 

[Terry Keeley]

Thanks Terry

I think that the size of the HydroShock is pretty normal, compared to a Eagle or JAE.

Weight is around 1700 grams RTR without fuel, a good heatracing weight in my opinion.

I have tried different methods when it comes to heat treating.

Last time I used this one:

Anneal: Raise to 1700F quench in oil

Stress relive: 240F/20min

Harden: 594F/40min

What method have you used?

I do think that we need to look into other materials than BC to be able to run more aggressive blade shapes with larger diameters, and still have thin blades.

Thanks

Jorgen

I don't run a 20 hydro but I think 3.75 lbs (your 1700g) would be about about average?

I've been using the "standard" heat treat here:

http://www.brushwellman.com/alloy/tech_lit/AT0015_0295.pdf

1450F for 20 mins. or so, water quench, then 625F for 3 hrs. I might try a lower initial temp. to see if if the blades have a bit more "give".

 

[Chris Wood]

the main reason for breaking the blades i think is the tail weight of the boat.. me and jorgen have spoke about this.

i havn't broken a blade yet but with the newer boats and more tail weight i would guess it is causing more prop load. but who know.

I don't heat treat props. so i cannot speak for that part of it

 

[Jorgen Andersson]

Hi

Yes, Chris, I think we will see more props in SS in the near future.

Tail weight is a factor here.

I was out testing one SS prop today, so far, so good, no blades thrown in the air!

Yes, Terry 1700 gram is average, but maybe on the light side in the International Naviga racing. In 8 boat heats, light is not always a winner.......

The heat treatment I posted above is for the ABC props, directly from the source and Jim Allen.

The heat treat you mention is for the Octura props, I have been told.

I do not know if they use different alloys in their props.

Thanks

Jorgen

 

[Terry Keeley]

Hi

Yes, Chris, I think we will see more props in SS in the near future.

Tail weight is a factor here.

I was out testing one SS prop today, so far, so good, no blades thrown in the air!

Yes, Terry 1700 gram is average, but maybe on the light side in the International Naviga racing. In 8 boat heats, light is not always a winner.......

The heat treatment I posted above is for the ABC props, directly from the source and Jim Allen.

The heat treat you mention is for the Octura props, I have been told.

I do not know if they use different alloys in their props.

Thanks

Jorgen

True, I think Jim was using some kind of maganese bronze or something...

 

[Jorgen Andersson]

Hi

Here is a picture of the sponsons I just finished.

Jorgen

http://www.intlwaters.com/index.php?app=gallery&module=images&section=viewimage&img=6806

 

[Terry Keeley]

Hi

Here is a picture of the sponsons I just finished.

Jorgen

http://www.intlwaters.com/index.php?app=gallery&module=images&section=viewimage&img=6806

What's the rest of them look like?

Bagged carbon? What do they weigh?

 

[Jorgen Andersson]

Hi Terry

Poor picture, shows only the nose of the sponsons.....

I will take some better ones later.

Yes, they are vacuum bagged and left side sponson is 44 grams, the right side is slightly more.

Jorgen

 

[Rick Doane]

Hi

Yes, Chris, I think we will see more props in SS in the near future.

Tail weight is a factor here.

I was out testing one SS prop today, so far, so good, no blades thrown in the air!

Yes, Terry 1700 gram is average, but maybe on the light side in the International Naviga racing. In 8 boat heats, light is not always a winner.......

The heat treatment I posted above is for the ABC props, directly from the source and Jim Allen.

The heat treat you mention is for the Octura props, I have been told.

I do not know if they use different alloys in their props.

Thanks

Jorgen

True, I think Jim was using some kind of maganese bronze or something...

Gentlemen:

The information that Jim Allen posted is accurate for the "Modified Alloy" of 275C BeCu according to the owner of ABC props. The numbers listed in the Brush Wellman, Inc. article for 275C will not work. The numbers for the 20C alloy (Ocutra props) are excellent. I have used Jim's posted numbers recently and have found them to be valid for a set of S40 ABC props, I just recently hardened, running on a twin CMB 1.01 outrigger. The props were measured post running and no pitch changes were observed. If any boat will change the pitch of a prop would be a large (16+ pound, 7.3 Kg) twin at 80 mph!

The alloy for the ABC props are different than the Octura props and need to be treated accordingly. I have found that SS props are very hard to work on.

Regards........Rick

 

[Terry Keeley]

Hi

Yes, Chris, I think we will see more props in SS in the near future.

Tail weight is a factor here.

I was out testing one SS prop today, so far, so good, no blades thrown in the air!

Yes, Terry 1700 gram is average, but maybe on the light side in the International Naviga racing. In 8 boat heats, light is not always a winner.......

The heat treatment I posted above is for the ABC props, directly from the source and Jim Allen.

The heat treat you mention is for the Octura props, I have been told.

I do not know if they use different alloys in their props.

Thanks

Jorgen

True, I think Jim was using some kind of maganese bronze or something...

Gentlemen:

The information that Jim Allen posted is accurate for the "Modified Alloy" of 275C BeCu according to the owner of ABC props. The numbers listed in the Brush Wellman, Inc. article for 275C will not work. The numbers for the 20C alloy (Ocutra props) are excellent. I have used Jim's posted numbers recently and have found them to be valid for a set of S40 ABC props, I just recently hardened, running on a twin CMB 1.01 outrigger. The props were measured post running and no pitch changes were observed. If any boat will change the pitch of a prop would be a large (16+ pound, 7.3 Kg) twin at 80 mph!

The alloy for the ABC props are different than the Octura props and need to be treated accordingly. I have found that SS props are very hard to work on.

Regards........Rick

Thanks for the info. Got an H32 in the newer alloy (kinda brass colored) I'm gonna treat, is that the 275C?

What process is working for you?

 

[moparbarn]

BRING BACK STAINLESS STEEL.

i really like them but they are no more

chris, check out mark sholund's post in the prop forum, maybe......

 

[Rick Doane]

Hi

Yes, Chris, I think we will see more props in SS in the near future.

Tail weight is a factor here.

I was out testing one SS prop today, so far, so good, no blades thrown in the air!

Yes, Terry 1700 gram is average, but maybe on the light side in the International Naviga racing. In 8 boat heats, light is not always a winner.......

The heat treatment I posted above is for the ABC props, directly from the source and Jim Allen.

The heat treat you mention is for the Octura props, I have been told.

I do not know if they use different alloys in their props.

Thanks

Jorgen

True, I think Jim was using some kind of maganese bronze or something...

Gentlemen:

The information that Jim Allen posted is accurate for the "Modified Alloy" of 275C BeCu according to the owner of ABC props. The numbers listed in the Brush Wellman, Inc. article for 275C will not work. The numbers for the 20C alloy (Ocutra props) are excellent. I have used Jim's posted numbers recently and have found them to be valid for a set of S40 ABC props, I just recently hardened, running on a twin CMB 1.01 outrigger. The props were measured post running and no pitch changes were observed. If any boat will change the pitch of a prop would be a large (16+ pound, 7.3 Kg) twin at 80 mph!

The alloy for the ABC props are different than the Octura props and need to be treated accordingly. I have found that SS props are very hard to work on.

Regards........Rick

Thanks for the info. Got an H32 in the newer alloy (kinda brass colored) I'm gonna treat, is that the 275C?

What process is working for you?

Terry:

The ABC props do look more brass colored. I use the process for 275C as Jim described in his post. So far so good. I repaired/treated two ABC S40 props, small blade area, 55-56 mm dia., very thin, mounted on a 1.01 twin, and no change in pitch was observed. These props are alot thinner than the 1667's we normally run. I was impressed. Also, I believe that one has to observe and control the heat values/times for both alloys in order for either to work.

There was a thread (ABC Props) started by me and is in the General forum and dates back to Oct. 1st (about 10 pages back). Heat treating values for both Octura and ABC can be found there.

Regards........Rick