2 Stroke Oil

[francois peilleron]

I do agree 300% with Terry;me too I have a whole case of worn out sleeve and pistons needles for the rod and ball bearings good

for garbage when I used pure synthetic MOTUL;when I brought the ball bearings to a ball bearing professional he told me you

have oil problem,I came back to castor since then no more problem;the only problem over 40% nitro castor oil don't mix

Look at the tether car,the FAI pylon plane they use 20% castor and 80% methanol and they go over 200mp

It might be old fashionned but in in my mind that s the best one

 

[Rudy Formanek]

I do agree 300% with Terry;me too I have a whole case of worn out sleeve and pistons needles for the rod and ball bearings good

for garbage when I used pure synthetic MOTUL;when I brought the ball bearings to a ball bearing professional he told me you

have oil problem,I came back to castor since then no more problem;the only problem over 40% nitro castor oil don't mix

Look at the tether car,the FAI pylon plane they use 20% castor and 80% methanol and they go over 200mp

It might be old fashionned but in in my mind that s the best one

Well, kind of comparing apples and oranges. Boats use not only a pipe like in tether cars, boats also use high nitro AND a pipe AND high compression AND they have throtlle. 60% and more requires at least half of the oil to be an alcohol/nitro blending synthetic. Boats are the only modeling high nitro engine that runs a full pipe making the lower rod loads much higher than a piped alcohol engine rod or a high nitro unpiped engine rod. Add water cooling that confuses the needle setting and can make a high nitro engine go from a burbling rich launch with the engine unable to heat up enough to stage with guys twisting the onboard needle way lean to get it to heat up, then BAM it does warm up and stage and then you are super lean and predetonating. BUT Terry may be on to something, at least for heat racing, SAW and record guys may disagree.

 

[Rudy Formanek]

I made a call to Redline oil in Benicia (Northern California). I asked about the alcohol mix two cycle oil. Dave the tech said they did not have it on the website because they didn't have images of the new label yet. They still package the product in quarts. He said it could be available in Australia if the Aus distributor orders it, but he doesn't know if they have it in stock.

I enquired with store interstate in Australia the price is $60 Au for 1 quart!

I will just stay with Coolpower..

Did you try Ebay Austalia??

I have found Ebay US prices on Redline, much cheaper than the local Sacramento motorcycle shop, plus I don't have the 8+% additional sales tax. Also cheaper than discount online internet shops, but will admit that the cheapest EBAY prices are usually from an internet discount supplier. Some times of the year the cheap prices disappear on Ebay and the internet.

 

[shoboat]

Rudy,

I understand most peoples views on oils and fuel for our boats,

but I think the SAW and even the Time Trials guys will show you

the results with good castor blended into their fuel these days.

The results are in the current record book in both organizations.

Jim and I used to talk all about fuels and different oil packages

all the time. We have currently went back to using castor in our

fuels and the results are Very Good.

Good Topic Fellas,

Mark Sholund

 

[Rudy Formanek]

I was Jim's caller, he did not use castor and thought highly of Redline synthetic alcohol oil and O'Donnell's oil. Years earlier he liked the Revenge fuel that was synthetic. If he changed his mind on castor, it was late maybe just before he died. There was no castor in the estate.That said, I will be trying castor in my fuel. Most record trail guys won't talk about their fuel(Well at least to me)

 

[Terry Keeley]

I will be trying castor in my fuel. Most record trail guys won't talk about their fuel(Well at least to me)

For my IMPBA E (.67) efforts I've been running:

70% nitro

15% alcohol

12% oil (8% synthetic/4% castor)

3% propylene oxide (really helps when it's cold out)

I have tried some 80% nitro, 10% prope, 10% oil but didn't notice a huge power increase, I may re-visit it when I get my new boat working.

The castor does separate out below about 25C (77F) so I've been trying to keep the fuel warm. I had a thread about this a while back:

http://www.intlwaters.com/index.php?showtopic=67947&hl=+amyl%20+acetate

I'm experimenting with nitro benzene to keep it in solution (Thanks Jim) and 5% works down to about 15C (60F). After doing some research it turns out it's not as scary as I first thought but I may just work on other ways to keep the fuel warm instead. Haven't ran any yet so don't know what the effects may be, it's supposed to be an igniter.

That's all I know but I'm not going 135 mph...

 

[John Beardslee]

Terry we used nitrobenzene to prevent detonation and to make the fuel smell great! The control line speed airplane guys had a handle on how to use it. Not sure many around any more that know how to use it. Seems everything causes cancer in California so not available or no one willing to experiment.

 

[John Beardslee]

Another question, so how do we work or adjust ignition timing in a diesel/glow engine? My best friends the Logghe brothers were the first to run straight nitro in their dragster, 1966 I think on a west coast tour with the giant killer, people would ask how are you doing that and they told them 60 degrees advanced, no one believed them, but they were telling them the truth. I saw a 55 gallon drum of Chevy pistons to prove it!

 

[Timbo Whalen]

Dave indicated that there's absolutely no need to add castor to their product, as

the physical properties in today's modern POE synthetics have eclipsed castor significantly.

Don't want to start a pissing match with anyone but I havta strongly disagree.

I spent quite a few years running some of the top synthetic oils available, Premium 500 (probably Mobile Jet oil II), Morgan's, Motul and a specially blended oil VP supplied to the top go kart teams. All claimed to have better properties than castor and all worked very well.

BUT, I have at least a dozen burnt/galled piston/sleeves that says otherwise. I run 12% oil which I know is on the low side but after proper break in (extra oil) it's plenty IMHO. I started running 1/3rd of that 12% oil as castor (Blendzall mostly) and have not had one gall/burn piston since going on 5 years now. That's running 21's to 90's with 60 & 70% nitro.

Castor for me!

Klotz told me the same thing...and just for grins, we'll attach the Physical Properties sheets here.

Check out the max rpm ceiling...if you're going to run pure synthetic mixed with methanol and nitromethane,

you have to run 20%+, and that's per Jeff Streby (Klotz) and Dave Granquist (Redline), who also mentioned

the shear and film strength exceed castor, as well.

The nice thing about castor is its chemical structure allows it to polymerize at high temps to leave a

waxy residue behind (castor varnish). If you do run into a lube starvation issue, that residue will protect

the engine for a brief time. (Ref- http://www.controlchat.com/castor-oil-vs-synthetic-oil/)

Personally, I've settled on 16% UCON LB-625 + 2%-3% Klotz BeNOL with 60% fuel.

Thanks-

Tim

KL-198 Tech Sheet.pdf

BC-175 Tech Sheet.pdf

828978.pdf

 

[Timbo Whalen]

Terry we used nitrobenzene to prevent detonation and to make the fuel smell great! The control line speed airplane guys had a handle on how to use it. Not sure many around any more that know how to use it. Seems everything causes cancer in California so not available or no one willing to experiment.

Jeff at Klotz said to run 1-2 ozs./ gal of KL-600 to quell detonation in a nitro glow engine.

 

[Timbo Whalen]

Another question, so how do we work or adjust ignition timing in a diesel/glow engine? My best friends the Logghe brothers were the first to run straight nitro in their dragster, 1966 I think on a west coast tour with the giant killer, people would ask how are you doing that and they told them 60 degrees advanced, no one believed them, but they were telling them the truth. I saw a 55 gallon drum of Chevy pistons to prove it!

We used to play with different glow plug heat ranges... hotter plug, charge fires sooner (advanced),

causing higher cylinder pressure. Was more of a weather tuning program for us.

Going to have fun this spring testing these notions, along with that KL-600... the only thing I know

about that stuff is we controlled detonation in our drag sleds and outboards with it.

http://www.klotzlube.com/power_additives.html

Thanks-

Tim

 

[David Ashcroft]

If detonation is occurring you are either too lean or perhaps have the wrong squish cleareance,,instead trying to cover it with additives

 

[Terry Keeley]

My feeling is that specs are one thing and what happens in the field can be a different story. As Tim said I think the varnish castor leaves is great protection, also (as the folks at Blendzall explained) castor migrates towards heat rather than being repelled by it. They said if you take some steel sheet and heat up one area castor will run towards it whereas synthetic goes away, all I know is it works.

i think the trick to running high nitro for our toy engines is the same as the big boys (as the Loghee's discovered), light it early. For us that means higher C/R's, low squish, hot plugs and less water cooling. Oh, and a little prope don't hurt.

 

[John Beardslee]

Terry have ever tried running a system to keep the plug lit all the time to possibly advance the ignition?

Thanks John

 

[Terry Keeley]

Terry have ever tried running a system to keep the plug lit all the time to possibly advance the ignition?

Thanks John

Not continuously but had a system years ago to keep it lite at less than 1/2 throttle. Went to a hotter plug with less cooling and it fixed the "flameout".

 

[Jack ODonnell]

There are many different oil package available. A few years ago we produced a fuel with a different oil package. The fuel worked real good but people did not like that the oil residue would stain the paint on the boat. we quit making the fuel. In testing our own boats we used 6% lube and 70% nitro for the two lap % strait line boats. We never had a lucubration problem. J.

 

[John Beardslee]

Jack did you do any long term testing of that record setting fuel? ie: 1 gallon, 3 gallons, 5 gallons, 7 gallons & 10 gallons to see the effect on bearings and crank seal over extended use. Ron Logghe had significant performance gains with a Ucon oil run at 7 percent but it was detrimental to the engines long term.

Thanks John

 

[JimZaremski]

Terry we used nitrobenzene to prevent detonation and to make the fuel smell great! The control line speed airplane guys had a handle on how to use it. Not sure many around any more that know how to use it. Seems everything causes cancer in California so not available or no one willing to experiment.

John,

it's way worse than "just causing cancer in California."

"Prolonged exposure may cause serious damage to the central nervous system, impair vision, cause liver or kidney damage, anemia and lung irritation. Inhalation of vapors may induce headache, nausea, fatigue, dizziness, cyanosis, weakness in the arms and legs, and in rare cases may be fatal. The oil is readily absorbed through the skin and may increase heart rate, cause convulsions or rarely death. Ingestion may similarly cause headaches, dizziness, nausea, vomiting and gastrointestinal irritation, loss of sensation/use in limbs and also causes internal bleeding."

"It is classified as an extremely hazardous substance in the United States as defined in Section 302 of the U.S. Emergency Planning and Community Right-to-Know Act (42 U.S.C. 11002), and is subject to strict reporting requirements by facilities which produce, store, or use it in significant quantities."

not something you want to mess with unless you absolutely have to.

 

[John Beardslee]

Milk does all that in California as well. Jim with my background and history of handling and working with hazardous material Im well aware of the dangers and hazards but reasonable precautions I believe its possible to experiment safely. Its up to each individual to look at the numbers and precautions and make their own decisions.

Thanks John

 

[Jeff Lutz]

There are many different oil package available. A few years ago we produced a fuel with a different oil package. The fuel worked real good but people did not like that the oil residue would stain the paint on the boat. we quit making the fuel. In testing our own boats we used 6% lube and 70% nitro for the two lap % strait line boats. We never had a lucubration problem. J.

. Jack, years ago we were using oil from a cart shop in the Tampa area . It was yellow/gold in color and he called it premium 500. Had a 500* flash point. It was awesome. It would stain white gel coat bad and some paint. Never found out who made it, he was reselling it and would not tell. I believe it may be the same oil you are referring to. In that time frame Odonnell fuel had some yellow look to it if you rubbed the residue with a napkin. Have you ever shared what oil it is? Jeff Lutz