What is a flow meter

[TraceyJacoby]

I have a GZR 30+ with Vision pipe. What is a flow meter and how can it help me with my gas setup? I've tuned cars with a wideband o2 sensor and an EGT gauge , but I dont understand how a flow meter can help.

Anyone, please help me understand what they are for, with an example of how to use one.

Thank you in advance for the support.

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[Mike Hughes]

Flow meter is for nitro. To flow the needle on the carb. Gas does not need much adjsutment on needle. I think most run 7/8 on high and 1 1/4 turns on low. Its been a while now since I have run gas. SO dont quote me on that. Maybe someone else will jump in with a good number.

 

[TraceyJacoby]

Mike (Thank you),

I've heard flow meters are available for nitro or gas. I didn't realize gas engines had a more easily tuned air/fuel ratio, compared to nitro. I raced nitro in the 80s; a Picco 80 and an OPS 21. I'm interested in nitro again.

I'm trying to understand the process of a flow meter. Is it: tune the engine, measure and record the flow meter number for later reference? How can the needle be adjusted from the recorded flow meter number when the temperature changes from hot to cold, or dry to wet, or high/low altitude?

Thank you

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[Gilbert Pun]

Have posted the question of using flow meter on gas engines to the Late Boris before he passed away, his answer was that flow meter is for nitro engine only.

 

[Tom Foley]

Once you have arrived at a satisfactory running condition with your nitro engine (s) you will flow the needle in a wet condition, meaning right after the run . record the flow number and general atmospheric conditions for future reference . This allows you to take apart and flush needle valves for maintenance and go right back to the number for a good run all things being equal . I like to flush the fuel filters with brakleen after each run before fill up and also check the flow with the meter . Takes a minute but sometimes you catch a problem before it's too late .

 

[PaulHail]

I'm surprised more people don't use an exhaust temp gauge on gas engines to tune the carbs for peak performance. It was a great tuning tool when I raced karts, get peak performance w/o sticking pistons or running a little rich. Sure you can dial in the carb so many turns on high and low to get the engine to run, but you can be giving up a bit of power vs. being right on the bubble.

 

[TraceyJacoby]

Do you know of an EGT gauge small enough for an rc boat? I wish i had one.

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[Rudy Formanek]

Eagle tree

 

[PaulHail]

I don't see a thermocouple probe offered by eagle tree. The problem is that as far as I know the smallest diameter high temp thermocouples are 1/8" diameter. Not a big deal in a 1 1/2" or larger header in regards to disrupting flow, I would be concerned that in a 7/8" header that the flow disruption would be to the point of robbing some engine power. If someone made a 1/16" or 2mm diameter probe, I think you'd be good to go but I don't think such a beast exists.

 

[Tom Foley]

Good gas engine performance is easy to achieve , driving on the other hand as with any boat is where the real performance is !

 

[TraceyJacoby]

I agree with honed driving skills and a consistent boat. However, I continue to search for ideas to get a better needle valve reading, beyond spark plug readings. Has anyone heard of (this isn't an advertisement)

http://www.eagletreesystems.com/index.php

This equipment supports CHT and EGT readings.

Also, I understand pipe length has an effect on needle valve settings.

Im not into going overboard, nor am I interested in any distractions from all the other aspects of boat racing. I'm simply collecting information to keep up with everyone else or be more competitive.

Thank you

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[PaulHail]

Haven't used an eagle tree, but the max temp on their temp gauge is 450F, which isn't going to cut it for the exhaust on a gas engine. When I was racing karts we'd tune the carb to get the exhaust at the header to 1200F. 1250F and you were on the ragged edge, 1300F and you were going to be melting pistons.

 

[Glenn McClintic]

Didn't there used to be flowmeters that used a reference gas like propane and then based on the atmospheric conditions would show the flow with accuracy for those conditions? I think the theory was that you could set the flow and it would run the same at sea level as at 4000 ft altitude, cold days, rain, hot, humid, etc.

I never used one but I saw some boaters with tanks, tubes, meters, etc. Seemed like quite a orocess, but probably very accurate. Are today's flowmeters as accurate as those?

 

[Glenn McClintic]

I think they were called magnehelic flow meters. Does anyone have a schematic of one? I would like to know exactly how they measure differential pressure and record flow. What does the reference gas do?

Got me curious....

 

[Tom Foley]

I think they were called magnehelic flow meters. Does anyone have a schematic of one? I would like to know exactly how they measure differential pressure and record flow. What does the reference gas do?

Got me curious....

The gas was just a convenient available pressurized medium to show flow through an orifice . 40 on the maganahelic was a common pressure .

 

[DickJones]

I think they were called magnehelic flow meters. Does anyone have a schematic of one? I would like to know exactly how they measure differential pressure and record flow. What does the reference gas do?

Got me curious....

Just threw a complete flow meter away 2 weeks ago, included case and all the extras, if only U could have posted earlier!!!!!!

moby

 

[John Beardslee]

I have a GZR 30+ with Vision pipe. What is a flow meter and how can it help me with my gas setup? I've tuned cars with a wideband o2 sensor and an EGT gauge , but I dont understand how a flow meter can help.

Anyone, please help me understand what they are for, with an example of how to use one.

Thank you in advance for the support.

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Hi Tracey,

Just back north from a winter in FL. The first "Flow Meter" was built by fellow Wolverine (Detroit) club member Tom Hyner, he worked in the "dyno lab at Ford" and had a number of patents while their employee. He built the first propane flow meter (around 1980) to help us with our twins but he also felt the need for one on his home built inline twin as well. I then with his permission proceeded to build hundreds of them for boaters around the country. Some of the originals are still in use today. The units consisted of a 1 lb propane tank a magnahelix and a flowmeter. Soon after the first versions we realized that there were some inconsistent readings as the propane tank got low so we added a gas regulator to the propane tank and or started using 5 or 10 lb propane tanks. I'll go through my files and get a copy of the original design and post it for folks to see. The units have been used to flow jets for carburetors and fuel injectors for automotive race engines. Mike Betke and Joe Weiblhaus of the Oakland Wolverine Club still use the original design with propane in fact Joe still uses one of the very first I sold. I'm sure he's probably had to replace some of the components after all the years. The components were readily available at "Steam Specialties" in the Detroit area and probably still available on line. The flow meter was by "Dreyer" and similar to those used on TIG welder gas tanks, the "Magnahelix" was used in the steam control systems. I sold my own personal propane flow meter last year so I don't have one as reference.

Thanks, John

 

[TraceyJacoby]

Mr John Beardslee,

Thank You for sharing your wonderful story about the historical introduction of flow meters into the world of rc boat racing. I enjoyed it.

I just got home from the Atlanta spring nats; im a little tired. I had a great time for the first time in 35 years. I look forward to learning more.

Be well.

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[bzubee]

Tracey, Next time your coming to Huntsville let me know and I'll bring a flow meter and my note book and show you about them.

 

[Jeffmaturo]

I think they were called magnehelic flow meters. Does anyone have a schematic of one? I would like to know exactly how they measure differential pressure and record flow. What does the reference gas do?

Got me curious....

Just threw a complete flow meter away 2 weeks ago, included case and all the extras, if only U could have posted earlier!!!!!!

moby

Dick, if you took the time to post that you threw one away, why didn't you post that you would give it to someone that needed one. I am sure someone would have been more than happy to send you postage. Sure seems like a big waste. See you at the lake, Jeff