The FE Sport Scale Rule Change Proposal

[drobie]

Let the flaming begin:

The FE Sport Scale Rule Change Proposal Is Not Here

Draft removed 3/22/2005

This is an open forum but it would be nice if commentary was only posted by NAMBA members.

 

[brooks93]

This SPORT SCALE HYDROPLANE section of the fast electric rules supersedes any other reference to sport scale hydroplane specifications in the NAMBA rulebook.

hold up.. the way that is writen that would also change the nitro rules because it says "supersedes any other reference to sport scale hydroplane specifications in the NAMBA rulebook"

and not supersedes any other reference to sport scale hydroplane specifications in the Electric Section of the NAMBA rulebook

 

[LOU]

Hey Kelly, I think this covers it

For inclusion in the ELECTRIC COMPETITION rules.

 

[brooks93]

Lou I know that what it says there but, it also say any other reference to sport scale hydroplane specifications in the NAMBA rulebook.

which means outside the electric area of the rule book

 

[drobie]

A valid point easily corrected when the rule is adopted. Also note that there is no use of the term "Sport Scale" in any other section of the rulebook.

It doesn't change the overall intent of the rule.

This SPORT SCALE HYDROPLANE section of the fast electric rules supersedes any other reference to sport scale hydroplane specifications in the NAMBA rulebook.

hold up.. the way that is writen that would also change the nitro rules because it says "supersedes any other reference to sport scale hydroplane specifications in the NAMBA rulebook"

and not supersedes any other reference to sport scale hydroplane specifications in the Electric Section of the NAMBA rulebook

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[Bill Blackwell]

Interesting proposal,

First, I'm looking some clarification on this "Sport Scale" proposal. Does "Sport Scale" replace "Sport" classes or are they in addition to them?

Here's my example: Limited Sport Hydro. Will it be called LSSH now? If so, I must first add a driver, a sponsor name, my NAMBA number and then only race 5 laps instead of 10? If SS does not replace S, then these examples wouldn't apply.

Can someone clarify this? Thanks.

Second, I'm looking for more clarification on specific rules.

Rule G: Why limit afterplane lenght to 60%. I think the 50% rule in D clarifies everything. The 60% rule only limits design innovation. Has someone checked to see if all hulls on the market comply with this 60% rule?

Rule E makes no sense.

Don't get me wrong. I'm not saying this proposal is good or bad, but would like clarification before voting.

I can understand why rule H is in there, from the standpoint that it puts uses a figure that clarifies 99% of the "Sport" hydro debates, but I am glad that current hulls are grandfathered in. I mean, if the intent was to just add a driver to "Sport" classes and clarify a few things so there would be no misunderstanding when someone wants to race the Miss Elam, Pay-N-Pak rigger or Aronow Special and eliminate rear shoes, that's one thing but I'm just looking for clarification.

Thanks,

Bill B.

 

[Kevin Whitehead]

Fate steps in and the "Sport Scale" proposal is left off of the list of proposals up for vote.

That should save a lot of typing by many people. This train wreck is just chock full of stuff to fuel arguments.

Who decided to rename the catagory Sport Scale Hydro instead of Sport Hydro? That is known as starting off on the wrong foot.

KW

 

[drobie]

Fate steps in and the "Sport Scale" proposal is left off of the list of proposals up for vote.
That should save a lot of typing by many people. This train wreck is just chock full of stuff to fuel arguments.

Who decided to rename the catagory Sport Scale Hydro instead of Sport Hydro? That is known as starting off on the wrong foot.

KW

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q
I think it was a step in the direction of more autonomy. IOW, the rational was, whereas the nitro side of NAMBA has separate sport and scale classes, FE doesn't separate the two. We run a hybrid. We "simulate" scale.

Sounded reasonable to me.

I wish those who had more to say in the wording would step in here. It still ought to be fixed a little and resubmitted.

It was a rush job, taken on to try and prevent the fiasco that happened at the SAWs from happening again this season.

We have since found out that the process for submitting a new rule as spelled out in the rulebook is obsolete. The board voted new methodology many years ago but it was never edit into the written rules.

A new rule can be passed by a District and submitted for vote at any time. It becomes effective as soon as the vote is completed.

 

[T.S.Davis]

Currently the classes are named thus:

O SPORT SCALE HYDRO

P SPORT SCALE HYDRO

Q & S SPORT SCALE HYDRO

LIMITED SPORT HYDRO

No one messed with the names at all.

Limited sport hydro rules refer you to 1/12th SPORT SCALE HYDRO which of course doesn't exist. Then P Sport Scale Hydro refers you to 1/16th SPORT SCALE HYDRO which of course doesn't exist. Then O Sport Scale hydro refers you to SPORT HYDRO which of course doesn't exist stand alone.

SPORT HYDRO starts at SPORT 40 HYDROPLANE(I guess)

If you read through all of the SPORT HYDRO sections(pafe 59 to 62 currently) you'll find the requirements for drivers, canopies, sponsors names, numbers, the 60% afterplane.

Thes requirements have ALWAYS been part of the FE SPORT SCALE HYDRO classes. Many of them have been ignored for years of course.

I keep saying of course. LOL

Ain't rules fun?

 

[Kevin Whitehead]

The Scale in the name should have evaporated when the 1/16th and 1/12th were trashed. So few of the boats that are run are even remotely scale appearing that it is joke to even use the term scale in the name.

Bill's right about LSH having to be LSSH, if the sport scale tag remains. That's assuming we are sharp enough to fold the LSH rules into these, so LSH rules are not dangling out there on their own taking up more rulebook space.

What's up with the minimum hull requirements? If it is 19.75", say it is 19.75". Don't say it is 20", minus 1/4" if you need it.

Just get rid of all of the length requirements. Period. Simplicity. If some fool wants to come out and race a 20" boat with 12 cells jammed into it against a fleet of wake creating 29" Larsonys. Well, more power to them. They will probably win the race, to the bottom of the pond!

Hull Specifications (a) says: The intent of this class is to simulate the appearance of Unlimited and/or Limited three-point hydroplanes

Hull Specifications (j) says: The boat must be attractively painted in the spirit of Unlimited racing.

Well, what is it? Are we to simulate the appearance of Unlimiters and/or Limited? Or, are we simulating the appearance of only Unlimiteds? Or, can we build Limiteds if we paint them as Unlimiteds?

Who judges attractivity of paint? I'm in a world of **** if it's Alan!

If the Spirits of Unlimited racing appearance and (i) The boat will have a painted driver figure in open cockpits, are truly enforced, cute little animals or cartoon characters driving boats are out of the question.

(k). Exceptions For Existing Hulls

1) Two popular and well-known hulls have been running regularly and assumed to be legal sport scale hulls for several years.

Should read: One popular hull and one hull developed by someone we are afraid of offending have been running regularly (in the case of the popular hull) and intermittently (in the case of the other hull) and assumed to be legal sport scale hulls for several years.

 

[Paul Pachmayer]

Hi Kevin,

and one hull developed by someone we are afraid of offending

"The wheels on the bus go round and round" LMFAO!!!!!!!

Paul.

 

[drobie]

What's up with the minimum hull requirements? If it is 19.75", say it is 19.75". Don't say it is 20", minus 1/4" if you need it.

Future designs should adhere to measurements. Some existing hulls don't but were purchased thinking they did.

Some other points you made are valid and will be included or at least seriously consider.

I'm taking this and working on a revision.

 

[T.S.Davis]

The Scale in the name should have evaporated when the 1/16th and 1/12th were trashed. So few of the boats that are run are even remotely scale appearing that it is joke to even use the term scale in the name.

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That's one opinion Kevin. Not a majority sentiment.

If we're going to write the tule around what we're doing now then why bother with a new set at all?

Trying to get some scale appearance back into the class was one of the goals.

 

[Kevin Whitehead]

But, why are there minimum hull lengths?

Now that the 1/12th and 1/16th scales are gone, what is the purpose of minimum hull lengths?

KW

 

[Kevin Whitehead]

The Scale in the name should have evaporated when the 1/16th and 1/12th were trashed. So few of the boats that are run are even remotely scale appearing that it is joke to even use the term scale in the name.

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That's one opinion Kevin. Not a majority sentiment.

If we're going to write the tule around what we're doing now then why bother with a new set at all?

Trying to get some scale appearance back into the class was one of the goals.

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And. You know that this is NOT the majority sentiment. How?

So, then you also want to change Limited Sport Hydro (LSH) to Limited Sport Scale Hydro (LSSH)?

My mistake was thinking that the main goal was simplifying the rules.

Sport hydro is simpler than Sport Scale hydro or 1/16th Sport hydro or 1/12th Sport Scale hydro.

No length requirement is simpler than a 20 inch(minus the 1/4 inch fudge facter) minimum.

Keep out outriggers, canards, tunnels, rear ride surfaces, etc. But, why the complicating factor of minimum lengths? Get rid of the minimums and you simplify the rule set by at least 20%.

No one in their right mind, who actually participates in races, wants increased requirements in scale detailing. There are way too many opportunities to have your highly-detailed scale hull changed so that it looks like you ran it through a wood chipper. Right Paul?

KW

 

[Jeff Shriver]

Who judges attractivity of paint? I'm in a world of **** if it's Alan!

C'mon, nobody uses electrical tape as decore better than Alan. LOL.

 

[drobie]

So, then you also want to change Limited Sport Hydro (LSH) to Limited Sport Scale Hydro (LSSH)?

Good point. The LSH rule would need a correction, regardless of what the new rule is called. But LSH's name itself doesn't have to change.

Currently, LSH says: 1. Hull and drivetrain specifications shall be according to the 1/12th P Sport rules in effect at the time.

I think every one agrees the 1/12th stuff ought to removed.

 

[T.S.Davis]

If it went to a vote then we might have known. It's really not possible to pole the entire NAMBA FE membership to see how they want a proposal written. It's pretty apparent that those that wanted something different/simpler/less scale didn't feel that strongley about it. The rules have been broken forever. The less is more crowd has left them untouched and broken.

All these experts with great ideas and not single shred of ambition. Why have the rules been broken for so long? There are so many experts that could have swish swished their magic wands and made perfection. Sure would have saved me some grief.

 

[brooks93]

Here a great idea.. If you don't like what was changed help fix it and stop bitching about how screwed up it is.. If you don't have the time well then you don't have a pot to #$%@ in and shouldn't be saying jack about it.

the purposal will never make it to a vote because it got lost somewhere.

So everyone can start with a clean slate.. Get ready because its coming around again.. or we can let it ride and let boats like the Spirit of the Eagle get in do to grey area.. I would be willing to bet you would scream louder if you went to a race and seen a rigger with wings on the oval next to your full body hydro.

If you actually want to help then speak up.. We could use your knowledge

 

[Kevin Whitehead]

The less is more crowd has left them untouched and broken.

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Look at the wonderful gems the "more complex is simpler crowd" wanted to add:

The boat may be purchased ready built, modified from an existing hull, or scratch built from any suitable material generally used in model boat construction.

The propeller and rudder may be attached to the transom, with the drive dog no further than 3" aft of the transom.

Each boat must have a sponsor’s name or logo affixed to the hull; this sponsor may be of the builder’s choice. Each boat will also display race numbers of the driver’s choice affixed to each side of the hull.

None of these do anything constructive to the rule set. Just more clutter.

No one is going to turn away anyone for not having a sponsor's name or race number painted on each side of their hull. We are not that stupid. So, the question is: Why write in a rule that we know we are not going to enforce?

KW