spectrum vs futaba and wich one do u perfer and why

[Robert Pickard]

 

[Daniel's Racing]

David,

JR........ Spektrum........ Same-same. Both are made in the same plant(s), to the same standards. They use the previous generation JR Tx shell for their latest Spektrum model and mold them in grey instead of black. That's the only difference between the two. Words straight outta the mouth of a JR field rep.

I'm still not using any "marine" Rx, without a single glitch. Keep 'em dry and you don't have to worry about it. Other than waterproofing efforts, there is no difference between the marine and non-marine Rx.

Thanks. Brad.

Titan Racing Components

BlackJack Hydros

Of course there is differences besides just the waterproofing. For starters the dual 8" and 14" antenna's. Doesn't really matter as Spectrum doesn't even make those "Marine" receivers any more. Actually the new Spectrum radios will not even work with the MR3000 Marine receivers if you already had them.

Countless boats have been destroyed by Spectrum. Yes Spectrum not user error and not from getting wet but rather just dropping out entirely for no reason other than they suck. They don't just suck on the water they suck everywhere. The buggy guy's are bitching all the time about how they can never get any range from there Spectrums and can't run anywhere near the range of the cheapest FHHS Futaba radio.

That junk takes 15 seconds to reconnect if it looses it's connection. Shut a Spectrum radio off once and right back on and you could eat your lunch waiting for it to start working again. That alone makes it pretty worthless IMO.

Looks like they are on to yet another try at convincing people they have made something work for boats. Everyone knows the previous technologies were epic fails.

http://spektrumrc.com/Products/Default.aspx?ProdId=SPM4100W

http://spektrumrc.com/Products/Default.aspx?ProdID=SPMSR310

I would run and trust a $10 AM radio from 20 years ago over any Spectrum POS.

And JR and Spectrum are not the same company. Spectrum(Horizon Hobbies) originally used some JR molds to build the early Spectrum radio's and they have shared their early DSM technologies. Today they each have their technology Spectrum is DSMR for surface and DSM2 and DSMX for aircraft. JR is only aircraft and they use DMSS.

I think this guy can better explain the relationship they once had.

>>>>>>>>

Horizon, the long time importer/promoter of JR, after they acquired the DSM technology from Paul Bierd used some of JR's older molds to make the first Spektrum radios for surface and air. Since then, Horizon solely handles the development and production of Spektrum and JR has little to do with it. Yes, the RF technologies are the same as an agreement was made that JR would use the DMS technology and would represent the 9ch and above market where Spektrum would be limited to 8Ch and below in the USA which as you can see all the lower channel JR radios have now disappeared. In Europe, Spektrum is not bound by this agreement thus the DX10 tray radio.

Yes, I am a Hitec rep but have been in the industry for over 15 years now and have many friends. If this information is incorrect then I invite someone like Seth Arnold to post here and set the record straight. The last thing I want to do is say something about a compeditor that isn't true but this info comes from multiple sources. I'm sure they don't mind that many think that Spektrum and JR are the same company as seem in this thread, but they should at least make it clear how the two companies are really related at this point in time.

Mike.

>>>>>>>>>>>>

 

[moparbarn]

Interesting info about jr & spectrum splitting the market by channel numbers. I work at a lhs part time & sold a spektrum DX18 to a customer on Monday of this week. How old is that post/info, Daniel? Since most everyone made to switch to 2.4 & freed up the FM band, I still use my jr xs3 pro 75mhz radio. Only issues I have ever had with it were self inflicted. Spectrum has had too many issues for me to ever use them, & at our last dist. race, I watched 3 boats loose control, 1 hit the bank & 1 tx just quit working on the bench with Futaba 2.4 - for a total of 4 failures. Mike Z. has mentioned an issue with Futaba he called "swamping", seems as though too many 2.4 radios in the same area can overload/"swamp" the available bandwidth. You have to remember that a lot of other equipment uses 2.4, such as WiFi & portable home phones (& prolly more I'm not thinking of).

 

[Bill Gibson]

WOW! Im kinda stunned about the problems people apparently have with Spectrum Boat/car radios according to Daniels Racing! I got into flying electric aircraft a little over 7 years ago, and have had ZERO problems with Spectrum radios......3 DX6i,s and the new DX6.....I use several different Spectrums receivers in various aircraft (got way too many!) no problems what so ever, and I fly something every weekend, and sometimes during the week....I wonder what they got right with the aircraft radio systems, and not right with the land water/ stuff? I was a full blown Futaba guy, still use em for my boats(FM), but as far as flying goes, I wouldn't give a second thought to use a Spectrum system...especially for the price! Just wanted to mention also that I just started racing R/C cars again, and picked up a FlySky 3 ch. system....and its working PERFECTLY! The thing is, its got the best backlit screen ive ever seen, 10 model memory, D/R, Expo, EPA, and another half dozen functions.....NIB 38.00!!!!! Replacement receiver 7.00!! I wouldn't stick it in a 70mph nitro rigger, but for racing Legends cars, how can you beat it??If it crapped out in a year, who cares? This radio stuff is just getting INSANE!

 

[Robert Pickard]

That is what there saying Bill spectrum is good for cars and planes when it comes to boats many problems get your butt to the Herb Stewart race been to long

 

[Joey Jones]

..I wonder what they got right with the aircraft radio systems, and not right with the land water/ stuff?

Good question. I've never heard anything negative toward Spektrum. Until I started boating, that is! I'm surprised, as well. For what it's worth, I'm a JR guy (DSM2) in the air and Futaba on the water. Never tried Specktrum on the water.

Since we're talking specktrum equipment, I found this interesting and maybe you will too. Ron (ronlund.com) of Ron's Helicopters in Texas recently sent out a survey to his customers a month or so ago. He shared some of the results in his last newsletter.

From Ron's Results:

Most of you use Spektrum radios with Futaba coming in second and JR third.

58% still have models with a flybar.

63% own Nitro models.

53% prefer to fly big air

25% use the BeastX or it's Spektrum sibling for a flybarless controller. That's the highest number by far.

Most of you (64%) have never had a tipover caused by the flybarless controller.

38% hit Google with their questions. Reading the manual comes in second at 24%.

Lipo and Lipo via a BEC are by far the most popular way to power your receiver.

90% would be willing to wait a few days to save 10% on a kit.

-JB

 

[Daniel's Racing]

I think that guy's post it was about 5 years old. It was a good discussion.

Sorry for beating a dead hose with the Spectrum thing.

You know it is hard to forget loosing two boats but I should give them a break I recon.

Very possibly the new technology they are using is going to work out for them and their customers. I hope it does. Competition is good and what drives innovation.

It has been a water thing mostly but with quite a few guy's having trouble in buggies with range issues that doesn't explain.

There are a coupe guy's at our lake that have been running Hitec new Radio the 4S I think they are with the telemetry built in the Proton receivers with GPS integral with the receiver also for real time speed at the transmitter and they have not had any issues for 3-4 months now.

Seems like a quality built piece.

Kinda weird that it seems JR is out of surface stuff completely now. I believe. ???? I guess the aircraft segment must be huge comparatively.

 

[Brad Christy]

Ron,

For the record, I've never professed to know everything about anything. I'll be the first one to point out my own shortcomings. I am very knowledgeable in a few areas, and that's what I stick to. In this case, I am definitely NOT an expert, I am only going by what I have observed first hand.

Dan,

Again, I will say user error. I've not had a single malfunction that I couldn't trace back to something I did wrong, nor have I seen anybody else, for that matter. I don't know about the other brands, but the Spektrum has a built in fail-safe, which I put to use a couple times before I got over the learning curve of the DSM set-up (antenna location was my problem). I never once came anywhere near putting it on the bank. It just kept quitting (just what I had the fail-safe set up to do) at the end of the back stretch, which was farthest from the drivers area and closest to the highway that runs along the other side of our pond. The fail-safe even kicks in in the event of low voltage. If a boat hits the bank due to a radio failure with a Spektrum, it either lost power (disconnection or otherwise) or the fail-safe was not set-up correctly. User error in both cases.

On the flip side, I watched a VERY seasoned, highly respected member of the Sp40/Scale community put his Sp40 on the bank TWICE in the same day. Everything was functioning perfectly in the morning during set-up. Launched the boat for the first heat. Couple laps in, straight for the bank. Luckily it was fairly muddy, and little to no damage was done to the boat. Brought it back to his tent to check it out. The Rx had lost marriage (his term). He went through the binding process and everything was kosher. Second heat, same thing. Into the bank. Rx had lost marriage. He was pissed. Brand new, top dollar FUTABA radio, top to bottom, and it wouldn't stay bound. It almost went in the pond.

The truth is all radios are prone to failure because they are installed by humans. Sadly, though, it's the poor craftsman that blames his tools.

I spoke with a friend of mine who has a Masters in Electrical Engineering, with a primary focus in RF. His dad was very much into RC heli's a while back, so he is very knowledgeable about all things "RC radio." He tells me there isn't a single reason the signal should bounce off the surface of the water with any effect on the reception of the signal. The angle of the ricochet would have to be ridiculous for the transmission time to deviate enough for a "second signal" to cause a problem. And, if it did, the problems would be FAR worse on hard ground or off a smooth, Monocote wing.

I really don't care what radio anybody chooses. Y'all's can drop your coin wherever you like. I don't have a dog in that fight at all. I'd just hate to see somebody decide to not jump into the hobby because they read somewhere that you have to drop $5-6-700 on a radio or risk losing their new boat to the mud. Not when there are more affordable options available that work just as well. Personally, I don't need a Tx with a 10 model memory, 84 tuning options or for it to talk to me or whatever, and I can't understand why anybody needs any of that, either. Bling is just that to me: Bling. Something to "justify" the cost, because there are those out there who will pay for it.

Thanks. Brad.

Titan Racing Components

BlackJack Hydros

Model Machine And Precision LLC

 

[Daniel's Racing]

Brad,

Sorry man if what you have is working good for you or anyone of course that is a great thing. How can I or anyone convince someone that isn't having problems with something that the something is a problem. Very difficult and I understand that. Best of luck and I sincerely hope you never loose a boat to one.

I will say that when I called Spectrum to discuss the dropouts on brand new equipment they actually said that this is very common and they are trying to resolve the issue and are not recommending the radios for boats at this time because of the number of reports of the same happening to so many. That was from the technical department for Spectrum. And water is the contributing issue with the Spectrums and they can crash boats without any user error involved without actually having any defect other than being the Spetrum.

Their is a lot of inexpensive radio's that do work well. The Tactic's are supposed to be good. But honestly I wouldn't recommend a bare bones radio to someone either because to have a proper driving experience you often need decent EPA they are separate for right and left side and Steering speed options at the very minimum.

There are people that run the Flysky stuff and I guess it works as far as signal but it seems that many in their following of owners have done a dozen different mods to them to make them more dependable.

It is a choice for all to make with fuel, oil, servo's anything. If I hadn't personally had such a bad experience when I am positve there was no user error aside from trying a Specrtum product in two fast r/c boats and were wrecked from loss of signal and then have them say oh yea we have heard plenty of it . Nice. They both worked when they were retrieved from the rocky bank . New good switches, batteries and servo's.

Some were thinking it was the rooster tails that were dumping the signal. Who knows. Never heard much bad when it concerns to their use in aircraft.

Water can affect and be the cause of problems with radio communications and especially in the 2.4 GHZ range.

Just a quick basic search will bring you quite a bit of interesting reading.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electromagnetic_absorption_by_water

 

[Brad Christy]

Dan,

I'm fairly certain that technical paper is referring to the signal traveling THROUGH water, in which case I would totally agree, as my buddy indicated was the case. That rules submarines out. The reflective thing seems like "grasping at straws" to me, though. Scientifically, it doesn't add up.

The strange thing about your scenario is that I'd have thought the fail-safe would have saved you. How did you have it set up? Personally, I have mine set to straight rudder, closed throttle. In the event of a signal or voltage loss, the boat just shuts down. I only had this happen a handful of times right when I first started using the Spektrum, until I figured out where NOT to place the antenna.

To be completely honest, I did, indeed, buy the Spektrum initially because of the cost. At the time, cash was VERY tight for me, Spektrum was the only option in my budget (at the time) and my FM was losing my confidence. Since then, even though the money thing is better, I've had good results, so why change, right?

The one complaint I might have, though, is the antenna mast on the Tx seems to be a bit fragile. I've broken two of them now. I'll admit user error in both cases, but I'd have thought they'd be a bit more durable than they seem to be. Don't know if this is an issue with others (?). I also pulled the antenna out of a Rx once. Pulled it apart and it looked like the solder joint was solid, but the wire had broken just above the solder. I spoke with a rep at my LHS and he told me they'd gotten several of them back the same way and had fixed the issue. Every Rx I've gotten since has had a nice little gob of hot glue securing the wire and preventing it from flexing right where it is weakest. Problem solved, so far.

Thanks. Brad.

Titan Racing Components

BlackJack Hydros

Model Machine And Precision LLC

 

[Hydro Junkie]

Actually, Brad, RF is affected by more than just water. Being a Navy trained avionic tech with primary training in communication, navigation and radar systems, I learned just how easy it is for a signal to be "disrupted".

Back in 1984, I was working on a airborne HF radio in the middle of the Indian Ocean. While testing the repair I had just completed, I came across a Houston Astro's game being broadcast real time. Come to find out, I was receiving the actual local AM station from Houston via "Skip", or being bounced off the upper atmosphere. This is a common phenom with AM signals when atmospheric conditions are right.

FM radio waves are line of site only. While this is good for fairly short range or at high altitudes, over long ranges or obstacles, it is useless. This explains why there is little to no cellphone reception in the various mountain ranges here in the States.

Now we get into the GHz range. This covers a lot of systems but the most common one is radar. Let's look at the general radar frequencies used:

Radar Frequency Bands Band Designation Frequency Range Typical Usage

VHF 50-330 MHz. Very long-range surveillance

UHF 300-1,000 MHz. Very long-range surveillance

L 1-2 GHz. Long-range surveillance, enroute traffic control

S 2-4 GHz. Moderate-range surveillance, terminal traffic control, long-range weather

C 4-8 GHz. Long-range tracking, airborne weather

X 8-12 GHz. Short-range tracking, missile guidance, mapping, marine radar, airborne intercept

K u 12-18 GHz. High resolution mapping, satellite altimetry

K 18-27 GHz. Little used (H 20 absorption)

K a 27-40 GHz. Very high resolution mapping, airport surveillance mm

40-100+ GHz. Experimental

You will notice that our 2.4 radio gear falls right in the S band. Guess what, S band is used for weather radar. We all know that weather radar shows falling rain and that rain drops are, by and large, very small. It can even pick up mist and fog at times. If an S band weather radar is reflected by a drop of water when it's broadcasting in megawatts, how does that relate to a pond or lake reflecting our signals that are transmitted in millawatts? Now, let's also look at some of the stealth equipment the military uses to defeat radar. The F-117, SR-71, F-22, F-35 and the new DDG-1000 Zumwalt class destroyers all use faceted or rounded skin and, on the aircraft, RF absorbing paint. The faceted and rounded body panels reflect the RF so that it's directed away from the receiving antenna, just like what the water can do to our radio gear. If the B-2 can look like a small bird to a radar, how much signal is really getting to our boat's receiver?

After seeing a brand new fiberglass 1980 Budweiser hit the bank when driven by an experienced racer and controlled by a Spectrum, followed by the troubleshooting and results thereof, the radio was found to be at fault, not the driver or the installation.

 

[Bill Gibson]

HJ, and that could happen with any radio, at anytime...is the nature of what we use to control our models in this hobby....no system is 100% perfect...wouldn't you agree? Ive got 25 year old radios that work as good as the day I bought em, and ive seen people have problems with radios that were barely a year old.....!

 

[Hydro Junkie]

Bill, I totally agree with you. Where I see the problem is when the Spectrum series came out, the manufacturer and it's design staff didn't take into account the information I just posted. It wasn't until the complaints started that they actually realized there was an issue. The other manufacturers watched what was happening and held off in releasing their systems until they had the issues, for the most part, worked out. That is why we have seen many fewer issues with the other brands. That being said, I NEVER CLAIMED THE OTHER BRANDS WORK PERFECTLY EVERY TIME. What did and still may be affecting Spectrum radios can affect the other brands in the same way. That's the fun part of our hobby, minimizing the issues while building and running boats in an ever changing environment

 

[Daniel's Racing]

Brad,

I believe in that piece it's relevance was to passing through water. I picked up on that later when I read it also but there is something to water and 2.4 communications being affected by being reflected and/or absorbed while over water also..... and it may need to go through water if your were on the other side of a rooster tail.

I am no expert on why it happens but I know Spectrum's of the past have struggled with it something that is worse when used in boats and I am talking aside from water and maintenance types of things.

Now they have something new and just the fact they didn't include a modulation type to also include the old versions makes you hope they have figured it out and this is something better.

Another culprit and likely source of issues with them seems to also be related to the interference of the high tension in the ignition systems of the gas boats and if you are mostly electric and or nitro it could be a factor in why you have had success with your Spectrum in marine environment. All want to say that the ones having the issues like I had were using gasoline engines.

Then there is something they say about them dropping out from sudden servo load and suggested a cap plugged into a receiver port to help with that issue. ????

 

[Brad Christy]

Dan,

I'm still wondering about the Spektrum fail-safe. Did you have it set up, and if so, how was it set up? In the event of a signal or voltage loss, the FS should have stepped in. Since the radio was functioning properly upon recovery, a total Rx failure sounds unlikely, as those are usually permanent. If the FS was set up properly, the only thing I can think of that would lead a Rx to temporarily drop out (without FS recovery) is a temporary total battery loss, like a loose connection or a broken wire still making intermittent connection. Just trying to understand any issues others have had so that other users can avoid them ourselves.

Thanks. Brad.

Titan Racing Components

BlackJack Hydros

Model Machine And Precision LLC

 

[Daniel's Racing]

It had the failsafe set and that is what actually crashed the boats both of them same corner only about 150 - 200 feet away as it is a tight lake with rocky shorelines and the turns are made within 10 feet of it. Failsafe chopped the throttle and straightened rudder. That is a choice what is better to set the steering failsafe for "HOLD" or set it for neutral. If it had been set to hold maybe it would have gone around. ???? Never know because that was first and last time I used the brand new radio.

Both came around the same turn on the front bank 200 feet closer to you than anywhere on the backstretch both dropped signal 3/4 of the way around the turn and the failsafe chopped the throttles but they still drove straight up the rocky bank within 10 minutes of each other. At 50 - 60 the boats don't stop that quick and at any speed this bank is going to take off some gelcoat.

The whole point though is the boat was right there so close why would it even drop out and failsafe. A radio shack toy boat would have better range.

 

[Brad Christy]

Dan,

I'll have to look into the "hold" option. I didn't know it had that and it may well be a better option.

I did notice that when mine was doing it (end of back stretch), I would go to start my turn and it would just not respond at first and then, just as panic was setting in, it would quit. It was always a couple laps into my run at the same point on the course, so at first I thought I had a fuel problem. Somebody suggested not refueling and re-launching to check for the fuel pick-up issues. Same deal: couple laps in, end of back stretch, it shut down. Getting nervous about it's proximity to the bank when it quit, I decided to start cutting the entrance and turns buoy at turn 4 and it didn't quit. I ended up running the entire tank out, cutting between buoys 4 and 5. Fueled it up again and did it again. Full tank through, no issues. Somebody mentioned the fail-safe and a light went off in my head. I went back to my LHS with the boat in hand. The store manager is a globally-traveled (racing) car guy who happens to run JR DSM radios. He took one look at how I had my Rx antenna routed and pointed it out to me. I had it rubber banded with all the other servo/power wires, through the deck lid, up the mast, then doubled over the top of the mast with a plastic cap holding it in place. He told me to get it by itself and as straight as possible and that I didn't need to worry about getting it up in the air. We ultimately decided that the antenna routing was diminishing the reception just enough, and I was drifting further out off the buoy line with each lap. Eventually, I would find the threshold and the FS would kick in.

I now run with the antenna taped to the side of the tub, under the deck lid, without a mast at all. Problem's gone. I've been running it that way for several years without a single glitch. I can now go anywhere on our pond with total confidence. I have yet to find a pond where I can outrun my range of reception.

Thanks. Brad.

Titan Racing Components

BlackJack Hydros

Model Machine And Precision LLC