Piano wire

[Brian Blazer]

Question...

I am a nitro/gas guy and am interested in using piano wire for the drive line. I would like to use piano wire on my gas sport hydro SAW boat. Any thoughts of this working?

thanks guys,

Brian

 

[anthony_marquart]

I'm going to try and set up a .12 rigger with piano wire too. Any suggestions on how to do this would be appreciated.

 

[jayt]

The only guy I know who has been successful using wire in a nitro boat is Glenn Quarrels, IMPBA Records Director. I saw his new SAW boat last weekend, and he had a 1/16" wire drive in it....a real sweet, innovative rigger design.

The driveline environment for wire is tougher in nitro boats, the added vibration and the power pulses from the motor put additional stress on the wire and the connections. Glenn has it solved for his .12 rigger, so it can be done. I just don't think enough knowledgeable nitro guys have been willing to develop the techniques to make it work. It certainly has advantages over flex cable - in frictional losses alone - and the cost factor is attractive too. Note that the top-speed FE guys run up to 2.5mm wire, that's 0.098" for about 6 hp and 45-50 mm props. A gas boat will probably need bigger wire.

I use Octura stub shafts, drilled to a minimum of 1.2" deep for 1/16th wire. Loctite 603 retaining compound is stronger than the wire - I proved that again a few weeks ago when I broke the wire cleanly in my 18-cell SAW boat. The wire stayed in the stub shaft. You may/will need a custom coupler to the motor - most FE guys use between 4 and 8 set screws to hold the wire in the coupler.

.

 

[Glenn Quarles]

Brian, Yeah I have been using the wire in my .12 boat for a year or so. I think it would work for your gas boat if you could ever get strong enough joints between the wire and stub shaft. Even on my .12 boat I broke a lot of joints loose. I assume you want to use a .250 stub shaft? I have no idea what size wire you would need to use...I would just try different sizes and see what is the biggest that will fit comfortably through the bends in your stuffing box. I am using 1/16 wire and it works really good. When you are picking out pieces of wire to try, make sure to go through them and get nice round ones...some of them have a weird helixal(sp?) cross section and will not work. You can probably use the same size stuffing box as you did with you cable and it will work OK. I am using the same size as I did with a .125 cable.

A new thing I am trying that the FE guys were unsure of is using an "S" bend in the stuffing box. I ran my new boat the first time a couple of days ago and it seemed to work great!

Anthony, what else would you like to know about putting a wire in your .12 boat?

Hope this helps,

Glenn

 

[anthony_marquart]

What collet are you using and how is it attached to the stub?

Brian, Yeah I have been using the wire in my .12 boat for a year or so. I think it would work for your gas boat if you could ever get strong enough joints between the wire and stub shaft. Even on my .12 boat I broke a lot of joints loose. I assume you want to use a .250 stub shaft? I have no idea what size wire you would need to use...I would just try different sizes and see what is the biggest that will fit comfortably through the bends in your stuffing box. I am using 1/16 wire and it works really good. When you are picking out pieces of wire to try, make sure to go through them and get nice round ones...some of them have a weird helixal(sp?) cross section and will not work. You can probably use the same size stuffing box as you did with you cable and it will work OK. I am using the same size as I did with a .125 cable.

A new thing I am trying that the FE guys were unsure of is using an "S" bend in the stuffing box. I ran my new boat the first time a couple of days ago and it seemed to work great!

Anthony, what else would you like to know about putting a wire in your .12 boat?

Hope this helps,

Glenn

 

[AlanN]

You need some Loctite 603 and the primer that's sold seperately. Look it up at mcmaster.com search for loctite.

Alignment must be very true and as little bend as possible on the wire.

 

[jayt]

Actually, the Loctite 603 alone is plenty. Primer isn't needed with the 603, which will set in oil. Use of the activator reduces the strength of the bond significantly, and IME the 603 is stronger than the wire is all by itself - as long as it is applied corectly. That means an even coat, and when filling a blind hole work the wire in and out with a rotating motion. When correctly done you will expell all the air, and if you pull the wire out a bit it will be sucked back in. Leave it undisturbed for 24 hours and it will be good to go.

It is a good idea to minimize tha bends, but you can bend the wire a surprising amount and be fine. Glenn's "S" bend looks pretty severe to me but it works for him. It is a good idea to have about 2" ahead of the stub straight, and at least 2" behind the coupler straight. Wire isn't for every use or every boat, but it has worked very well for me once I learned how to do it.

.

 

[Glenn Quarles]

What collet are you using and how is it attached to the stub?

Brian, Yeah I have been using the wire in my .12 boat for a year or so. I think it would work for your gas boat if you could ever get strong enough joints between the wire and stub shaft. Even on my .12 boat I broke a lot of joints loose. I assume you want to use a .250 stub shaft? I have no idea what size wire you would need to use...I would just try different sizes and see what is the biggest that will fit comfortably through the bends in your stuffing box. I am using 1/16 wire and it works really good. When you are picking out pieces of wire to try, make sure to go through them and get nice round ones...some of them have a weird helixal(sp?) cross section and will not work. You can probably use the same size stuffing box as you did with you cable and it will work OK. I am using the same size as I did with a .125 cable.

A new thing I am trying that the FE guys were unsure of is using an "S" bend in the stuffing box. I ran my new boat the first time a couple of days ago and it seemed to work great!

Anthony, what else would you like to know about putting a wire in your .12 boat?

Hope this helps,

Glenn

Anthony, I made an adapter that threads onto the crank and holds the wire with four set screws. I have twisted several wires, but the set adapter has never turned loose. Some of the FE guys use a regular collet like you would use for a .125 cable and it works fine...you just have to soldier some 1/16 ID X 1/8 OD tubing to the wire to make it fit the collet. It is all very easy to do.

Glenn

 

[AlanN]

The primer helps set the loctite up faster. It can some in handy at a race.

 

[anthony_marquart]

OK, so I solder a piece of tubing over the wire to get it up to 1/8 for my collet. That's good news. I see stubs for 1/8 and 3/16 prop sizes made for 1/16 wire. So I just loctite the shaft into the stub? Anyone though of how to keep from loosing the stub and prop if the wire breaks?

Glen, did you see a direct performance increase when you went to wire?

Anthony, I made an adapter that threads onto the crank and holds the wire with four set screws. I have twisted several wires, but the set adapter has never turned loose. Some of the FE guys use a regular collet like you would use for a .125 cable and it works fine...you just have to soldier some 1/16 ID X 1/8 OD tubing to the wire to make it fit the collet. It is all very easy to do.

Glenn

 

[Joe_Knesek]

Have you ever considered using swqaure drive collets on a wire drive? On the sport 20 I'm building I'm using a square drive on both ends letting the shaft float. On the strut I'm using the output shaft from a K&B 40 outboard.

 

[Glenn Quarles]

Anthony, I have never done a side by side radar gun comparison between my boat with cable and with wire (I set my boats up to run either), but my fastest passes (mid 80's mph) have been with wire. Also, the wire is a LOT cheaper to make (it might cost me a dollar apeice to make them), does not "squak" like cable does when the get dry, and doesn't shorten under load like a cable. Bottom line is that unless I run into some unforseen problem the wire has enough advantages to make me stick with it.

Glenn