OT: Electrical question

[Brad Christy]

Guys,

I'm preparing to buy a Hardinge HLV-EM toolroom lathe and I need to make sure I can power it before buying it, so........

I will be using it at home, which has residential 110V single phase. A family friend wired up 220V for the garage and hooked up the static phase converter so I could run my mill. This worked like a charm for several years, but I have since sold the mill and am now looking to go more full time with the above mentioned lathe. Here's the issue. It's wired for 460V 3 phase. The salesman tells me there is a transformer on the machine to allow it to run on a 230/3 supply. Will all this come together OK, or am I looking a problems with the phase converter and transformer. I asked the guy who originally did the wiring, but he wasn't familiar with the static phase converters to help.

Any input from you electrical guys would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks. Brad.

Titan Racing Components

BlackJack Hydros

 

[waltr]

Hi Brad,

I have a machine shop and might be able to help.

I'm kind of wondering about this transformer.Usually most 3 phase motors will run on 220 or 440.There's a plate that should be located on the motor itself with a wiring diagram.It will have on one half of the plate 220 and the opposite half will be 440.On the motor should also be a cover plate with wires in it.All of the wires will have tags on them.L-1,L-2,L-3.Those are your power leg lines.Than the rest should have 1,2,3,4,5,and 6.Just by joining the wires in a different sequence it will change the motor voltage.

If it does have a step down transformer,that should work too.

Here's the link for the converters:

http://www.phase-a-matic.com/

The web site can answer alot of your questions.

Good Luck!

 

[Mark Bullard]

Guys,

I'm preparing to buy a Hardinge HLV-EM toolroom lathe and I need to make sure I can power it before buying it, so........

I will be using it at home, which has residential 110V single phase. A family friend wired up 220V for the garage and hooked up the static phase converter so I could run my mill. This worked like a charm for several years, but I have since sold the mill and am now looking to go more full time with the above mentioned lathe. Here's the issue. It's wired for 460V 3 phase. The salesman tells me there is a transformer on the machine to allow it to run on a 230/3 supply. Will all this come together OK, or am I looking a problems with the phase converter and transformer. I asked the guy who originally did the wiring, but he wasn't familiar with the static phase converters to help.

Any input from you electrical guys would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks. Brad.

Titan Racing Components

BlackJack Hydros

I have seen this mistake so many times. It takes a lot to change a machine over from 460V to 230V. What it sounds like is you are going try to run this machine from your single phase to convert it to 230vac/3 phase. Then the saleman want to convert your 230V/3phase to 460V/3phase. This is really not the way to change a machine but it will work. The machine can be converted over to 230V/3phase but it will take a little effort and maybe some overload heaters for the motor contactor. I can provide this information if you want to go that route. But there again this machine will be easier to sell if is 460V/3phase. There is only a couple of things that you will need to look into. The maxium amperes that the machine will produce at full load will be times two. So if the machine full load is 10 amps you will double that and this is what your phase converter will see. Question is what is the phase converter good for full load amperes. If your under that then there will be no problem. There is one more thing on this and you may have seen it on your mill. With phase converters there is a 20% loss of horsepower in your motor. So if you have a 10hp motor you would only be able to produce about 8hp. The end results is you will not be able to load the machine to it full load.

Mark Bullard

 

[Brad Christy]

Walt,

Thanks for the info. Actually, I think it's a step UP transformer. Is it possible that the presence of a transformer would indicate a single voltage motor (460V in this case)? I am totally in the dark on this at this point.............. <_<

Thanks. Brad.

Titan Racing Components

BlackJack Hydros

 

[Roxyflash]

Could always rent a gen set with the correct voltage i think a 50kw should cover it.LOL

 

[waltr]

Walt,

Thanks for the info. Actually, I think it's a step UP transformer. Is it possible that the presence of a transformer would indicate a single voltage motor (460V in this case)? I am totally in the dark on this at this point.............. <_<

Thanks. Brad.

Titan Racing Components

BlackJack Hydros

Dah... you're right.It would be a stepup.I realized that later.

Mark is also right about the loss of power.It also states that on the link I sent you.

If it does have the transformer to 220V/3phase,you're good to go.(if you don't mind the loss of a little power from the phase converter).But sometimes a little power loss is no big deal.I ran bridgeports years ago with converters.And we machine all stainless.

Fortunatly phase converters are no longer needed.

 

[jstew0903]

Have you checked into getting a VFD to run it. Seems like it would be really nice on a lathe. I have my Bridgeport Series II mill that is three phase and I run the head on the highest gearing and use the vfd to change RPM. It is really nice and it changes the 2 phase to dc then back to three phase. They are really nice and easy to set up. Go to WWW.cnczone.com and search under VFD and you can find out how it works. I picked mine up for $100 brand new and it works really nice. Hope this helps. The guy I bought it from may have more he will give you a deal on. let me know.

Jason Stewart

Her is a link to one on ebay. This one is kind of pricey but they are really nice. They used to cast a couple thousand but now they have come down for us to afford them. Youy have to over rate them by 1/3 I believe. Mine I have wired up with a breaking resitor so that it will stop the spindle in about 8 seconds. Will make it real nice when I do tool changes. If you plan on doing threading on you lathe you just put a pot on it and you can turn it up and down really precisely.

http://cgi.ebay.com/Hitachi-Variable-Frequ...4QQcmdZViewItem

Jason

 

[Brad Christy]

Guys,

Thanks to all for the replies. I think I've got it now. I just spoke to a friend's dad a bit ago, who happens to be a Master's degree'd electrical engineer. He spent the bulk of his working life at a DOD installation, then moved on to Square D for several years and now is a consultant for several industrial contactors in the greater local area.

What it all boils down to is this: I'm switching from a 3-phase application to a 3-phase application, and from a 3HP drive motor (on the mill) to a 1HP drive motor (on the lathe). With or without the transformer, the currnet draw will be less with the 1HP than it was on the 3HP. If the lathe is wired 480V, and is supplied with at 240-480V transformer, I'm good to go. If the lathe is wired 240V, or is multi wired (giving the option of 240 or 480V), I'll just bypass the transformer and I'm good to go.

If there is any ill-logic in this, somebody say something, but it makes sense to me...........

Thanks. Brad.

Titan Racing Components

BlackJack Hydros

 

[Mark Bullard]

Guys,

Thanks to all for the replies. I think I've got it now. I just spoke to a friend's dad a bit ago, who happens to be a Master's degree'd electrical engineer. He spent the bulk of his working life at a DOD installation, then moved on to Square D for several years and now is a consultant for several industrial contactors in the greater local area.

What it all boils down to is this: I'm switching from a 3-phase application to a 3-phase application, and from a 3HP drive motor (on the mill) to a 1HP drive motor (on the lathe). With or without the transformer, the currnet draw will be less with the 1HP than it was on the 3HP. If the lathe is wired 480V, and is supplied with at 240-480V transformer, I'm good to go. If the lathe is wired 240V, or is multi wired (giving the option of 240 or 480V), I'll just bypass the transformer and I'm good to go.

If there is any ill-logic in this, somebody say something, but it makes sense to me...........

Thanks. Brad.

Titan Racing Components

BlackJack Hydros

Brad,

You are good to go. As for as changing the motor over from 460 to 230V will not be a problem if the motor has the leads which more than likey does. But a overload change will be required for the motor contactor and also the control transformer voltage will have to be changed from 460V to 230V. That is why I said if the machine is 460Vac and come with a stepup transformer then I would just leave it like it is. There is no need to spend the extra money.

Mark

Have you checked into getting a VFD to run it. Seems like it would be really nice on a lathe. I have my Bridgeport Series II mill that is three phase and I run the head on the highest gearing and use the vfd to change RPM. It is really nice and it changes the 2 phase to dc then back to three phase. They are really nice and easy to set up. Go to WWW.cnczone.com and search under VFD and you can find out how it works. I picked mine up for $100 brand new and it works really nice. Hope this helps. The guy I bought it from may have more he will give you a deal on. let me know.

Jason Stewart

Her is a link to one on ebay. This one is kind of pricey but they are really nice. They used to cast a couple thousand but now they have come down for us to afford them. Youy have to over rate them by 1/3 I believe. Mine I have wired up with a breaking resitor so that it will stop the spindle in about 8 seconds. Will make it real nice when I do tool changes. If you plan on doing threading on you lathe you just put a pot on it and you can turn it up and down really precisely.

http://cgi.ebay.com/Hitachi-Variable-Frequ...4QQcmdZViewItem

Jason

VFD will work very well but he already has a phase converter. Now if he did not have the phase converter I would suggest that. We double the size of the VFD on a machine like this because of the duty cycle they can be put under. Also a good thing about VFD's is the motors will not lose their horsepower.

Mark

Brad,

If you need a bigger motor to run your lath you might try this one.

Mark

 

[Brad Christy]

"If you need a bigger motor to run your lath you might try this one."

Mark,

:huh: Yup! That ought to do it! :blink:

Thanks. Brad.

Titan Racing Components

BlackJack Hydros