Nitro Engines

[LohringMiller]

Some of you may be interested in a series I wrote about the development and construction of high power model engines. It's an attempt to preserve the heritage of a dying breed. I still have memories from the late 1950s of screaming control line speed engines fueled with shoe polish smelling nitrobenzene in exotic mixtures with names like Missile Mist. I hope there is enough information in these articles for an ambitious person to design and build these engines. Unfortunately, I doubt that they live in English speaking countries. Links are below:

namba.com/content/library/propwash/2018/october/14/ History

namba.com/content/library/propwash/2019/april/24/ Modern Piston & Liner Construction

namba.com/content/library/propwash/2019/october/4 Cylinder Head Design

namba.com/content/library/propwash/2020/april/4/ Tuned Pipe Design

namba.com/content/library/propwash/2020/October/4/ Port Design & Scavenging

namba.com/content/library/propwash/2021/march/16/ Mechanical Design

Lohring Miller

 

[Terry Keeley]

Links don't work for me...

 

[Ricky Neal]

Thanks Lohring, Some incredible information here that until recently was shrouded in secrecy. Thanks for putting it together.

You reference the MB40, rightly so, it is extremely advanced and we all have a lot to learn from its design as well as the work of the late Jim Allen. Incidentally, I stumbled across a new engine that I thought you and others on this forum would find very interesting.

Again it's an F3D engine (Which seems to be a good place for development)

It also uses an integrated cylinder like the MB40 but it also has some extremely interesting advancements, the induction system for one but also the fact they have integrated an exhaust valve -I think this is a first for a model engine







Regards

Ricky

 

[Ricky Neal]

Links don't work for me...

Try these ones

http://namba.com/content/library/propwash/2018/october/14/
http://namba.com/content/library/propwash/2019/april/24/
http://namba.com/content/library/propwash/2019/october/4/
http://namba.com/content/library/propwash/2020/april/4/
http://namba.com/content/library/propwash/2020/October/4/
http://namba.com/content/library/propwash/2021/march/16/

 

[Terry Keeley]

Thanks Lohring, Some incredible information here that until recently was shrouded in secrecy. Thanks for putting it together.

You reference the MB40, rightly so, it is extremely advanced and we all have a lot to learn from its design as well as the work of the late Jim Allen. Incidentally, I stumbled across a new engine that I thought you and others on this forum would find very interesting.

Again it's an F3D engine (Which seems to be a good place for development)

It also uses an integrated cylinder like the MB40 but it also has some extremely interesting advancements, the induction system for one but also the fact they have integrated an exhaust valve -I think this is a first for a model engine

View attachment 289595

View attachment 289596

View attachment 289598

Regards

Ricky

Czech you say?

http://www.enginesf3d.cz/index.php/sales-of-engines

 

[LohringMiller]

Like I said, today's innovations are going to come from non English speaking countries. The boat market is too small to attract many builders. Only cars and pylon racers seem to attract innovation, but few use truly modern designs. As I said, though, friction is probably more important than detail refinements except in tuned pipes.

Lohring Miller

 

[Timbo Whalen]

Some of you may be interested in a series I wrote about the development and construction of high power model engines. It's an attempt to preserve the heritage of a dying breed. I still have memories from the late 1950s of screaming control line speed engines fueled with shoe polish smelling nitrobenzene in exotic mixtures with names like Missile Mist. I hope there is enough information in these articles for an ambitious person to design and build these engines. Unfortunately, I doubt that they live in English speaking countries. Links are below:

namba.com/content/library/propwash/2018/october/14/ History

namba.com/content/library/propwash/2019/april/24/ Modern Piston & Liner Construction

namba.com/content/library/propwash/2019/october/4 Cylinder Head Design

namba.com/content/library/propwash/2020/april/4/ Tuned Pipe Design

namba.com/content/library/propwash/2020/October/4/ Port Design & Scavenging

namba.com/content/library/propwash/2021/march/16/ Mechanical Design

Lohring Miller

Try these ones

http://namba.com/content/library/propwash/2018/october/14/
http://namba.com/content/library/propwash/2019/april/24/
http://namba.com/content/library/propwash/2019/october/4/
http://namba.com/content/library/propwash/2020/april/4/
http://namba.com/content/library/propwash/2020/October/4/
http://namba.com/content/library/propwash/2021/march/16/

THANKS, Ricky!..... those links work fine!

 

[Timbo Whalen]

Some of you may be interested in a series I wrote about the development and construction of high power model engines. It's an attempt to preserve the heritage of a dying breed. I still have memories from the late 1950s of screaming control line speed engines fueled with shoe polish smelling nitrobenzene in exotic mixtures with names like Missile Mist. I hope there is enough information in these articles for an ambitious person to design and build these engines. Unfortunately, I doubt that they live in English speaking countries. Links are below:

namba.com/content/library/propwash/2018/october/14/ History

namba.com/content/library/propwash/2019/april/24/ Modern Piston & Liner Construction

namba.com/content/library/propwash/2019/october/4 Cylinder Head Design

namba.com/content/library/propwash/2020/april/4/ Tuned Pipe Design

namba.com/content/library/propwash/2020/October/4/ Port Design & Scavenging

namba.com/content/library/propwash/2021/march/16/ Mechanical Design

Lohring Miller

Lohring, thanks so much for sharing that!......going right into my archives for preservation.

My memories go back to the early 60's with tether boats at our summer lake house.

Dumas Thriftway hydroplanes and Fox 15X and 25BB engines. I was 10-12 yrs. old then

and remember talking to Duke Fox on the phone a couple of times about engines. He was

a great guy and seemed to enjoy the interest a kid had in these engines. He explained the

'cause and effect' perspective of these glow engines.

We were just kids, pounded some galvanized pipe into the sand in about 2' of water at the

beach, used the strongest C/L cabling we could find and had a lot of fun.

Sure wish I had photos and video of those days.

Here's some interesting links:

https://www.craftsmanshipmuseum.com/Fox.htm
http://modelenginenews.org/people/duke/dm8708.html
Duke Fox on glow fuel, mixing, and lubrication:

http://modelenginenews.org/people/duke/dm8908.html
Determining Engine Condition:

http://www.flitelinesolutions.com/project6.html
Head Button Mods:

http://www.flitelinesolutions.com/project3.html
Anyway, just some interesting glow engine history....

Thanks-

tim

 

[Timbo Whalen]

Like I said, today's innovations are going to come from non English speaking countries. The boat market is too small to attract many builders. Only cars and pylon racers seem to attract innovation, but few use truly modern designs. As I said, though, friction is probably more important than detail refinements except in tuned pipes.

Lohring Miller

We've been playing with DFL (Dry Film Lubricant) on piston sheer wall surface,

and ceramic coatings on the pipes & headers (inside and out), piston tops, and

squish/bowl areas of the head button. No dyno to validate anything, but the

same treatments on a 355" SBC V8 netted ~22bhp gain.

Tuning seems easier and consistency has improved.... the engines do not seem

to be bothered by small atmospheric changes, either. We run our engines quite

hot with EGT's in the header at ~608°C. (1126.4°F.)

Now, if Sunnen would just get the rest of the parts from their supplier for my

P-180 Honall, we'd be a happy camper.

Thanks-

tim

 

[LohringMiller]

I flew several Ringmasters with Fox 35s in the late 1950s. I even built a twin Ringmaster. It was a great combination. I still have a Fox 15. I love all the information on modelenginenews.com. The site is no longer being updated, though.

Lohring Miller

 

[Al Hobbs]

Lohring,

I have discussed producing nitro marine engines with many people in different countries. Most of the people I deal with speak impeccable English.

Al Hobbs

 

[Ken Retallick]

Al,

I am building engines to be released shortly, But speak Aussie (a form of English) !!

 

[Al Hobbs]

I have seen some Aussie 45 made engines run. Very nice running engines!

I'm looking forward to seeing your engines.

 

[dwilfong]

It is looking like 3D printing is going to be the next BIG part of new eng design and building as it get faster and more cost effective.
Should open up a whole new way of thinking about what can be done.
You need to think out side the constraints of molds.
Think about how you can print what every you come up with in your mind as to what will flow best.
That picture of a intricate mold will be a thing of the past.
Focus on the future not the constraints of what was.

 

[LohringMiller]

Most of the race engines produced today come from outside the US. We were once at the front of this development. The very best small two stroke engine was Italian. Today there are some serious small two stroke engine builders and designers in the Netherlands, Australia, and New Zealand. However, I see the rising manufacturing economies of eastern Europe or Asia as the home of future glow engines if there is one. There there is an rising class with enough leisure and money combined with skilled machinists in companies with some extra production capacity.

It takes a situation like the one I grew up in that existed in the US after WW II. My town had dozens of small machine shops that fed local large industries as well as Detroit. One even helped me tap a control line speed pan I cast in school shop. However, I'm afraid that IC engines are going the way of steam engines. They will be built as historical models to showcase the great engines of the past. Gone will be the sounds of aircraft radials or twin big block Chevys.

Lohring Miller

 

[dwilfong]

Sorry I disagree with IC engine going away. The infrastructure to support them is to large and to complex to gust disassemble and start over.
Oil will always be cheaper than any alternative.
You still have to BURN some thing to make enough electricity to maintain the base load on the grid to charge all those electric cars thy have floating around in there dreams.
Thy killed the best source years ago when Three Mile Island was made in to a Liberal thriller by the media.
All the power plants in FL are run on a natural gas turbines. It is pipe in from the gulf now.
O that's right some pipe lines are GOOD.......LOL

 

[Timbo Whalen]

Most of the race engines produced today come from outside the US. We were once at the front of this development. The very best small two stroke engine was Italian. Today there are some serious small two stroke engine builders and designers in the Netherlands, Australia, and New Zealand. However, I see the rising manufacturing economies of eastern Europe or Asia as the home of future glow engines if there is one. There there is an rising class with enough leisure and money combined with skilled machinists in companies with some extra production capacity.

It takes a situation like the one I grew up in that existed in the US after WW II. My town had dozens of small machine shops that fed local large industries as well as Detroit. One even helped me tap a control line speed pan I cast in school shop. However, I'm afraid that IC engines are going the way of steam engines. They will be built as historical models to showcase the great engines of the past. Gone will be the sounds of aircraft radials or twin big block Chevys.

Lohring Miller

There are some really HIGH quality engines being produced in the Ukraine/Russia, too.