Horizontal Wings ! ! !

[missbudpilot55]

Was going to throw this one on the T-4 thread but it deserves it's own thread for the positives and negitives.

As Don Ferrette and I were recently discussing, I don't know what all the fuss about this boat or that boat without the rear horizontal wing is all about. Gentleman this is an essential piece of the boat, at any speed around and above 30 MPH the horizontal wing plays a very important part in what "ride attitude" the boat runs, by setting it up and being able to adjust it accordingly you can keep the nose down and lift the rear of the boat, or you can make it fly light & loose in the nose, what ever your pleasure would be. It can lift the transom up of a tail heavy boat. What say you on this topic.

 

[Grub]

Less to build I guess plus don't have to worry about breaking them if they are not there.

Also there are people that run within the SPIRIT of the class and on the other hand there are those that run WITHIN the rules.

I dunno maybe they should run a shovel nose, like me, then they wouldn't have to worry about it.

Grub

 

[SayMikey]

Less to build I guess plus don't have to worry about breaking them if they are not there.

Also there are people that run within the SPIRIT of the class and on the other hand there are those that run WITHIN the rules.

I dunno maybe they should run a shovel nose, like me, then they wouldn't have to worry about it.

Grub

t-4 thread was mine i just like the looks of the t-4 without horz,i have a redngold bud with wings and a round nose....Mike

 

[Douglas P Shepherd]

Less to build I guess plus don't have to worry about breaking them if they are not there.

Also there are people that run within the SPIRIT of the class and on the other hand there are those that run WITHIN the rules.

I dunno maybe they should run a shovel nose, like me, then they wouldn't have to worry about it.

Grub

t-4 thread was mine i just like the looks of the t-4 without horz,i have a redngold bud with wings and a round nose....Mike

My Bud T4 hull is .5 to 1.0 per lap faster with the wing than without. But I am like Mike, I like the way it looks without.

 

[missbudpilot55]

I have a T-4 that is currently being repaired, what little I did run it,

it didn't handle worth a crap without the horizontal the one time I tried

it, and seemed to be faster with the horizontal. Will find out more this

summer once it is back on the water.

 

[Paul Pachmayer]

Hi Guys,

I found out just how important the wings were in Indy last year. My Atlas had a blow over and it ripped apart one vertical and left the horizontal flapping in the breeze. I should mention that when it blew over it landed on the wing and flipped over so I was able to finish the race but I could barely drive the thing with the wings "flapping" around. :lol: As small as they are they do work.

Paul.

 

[Don Ferrette]

It's real simple. Stick your hand out the car window going 50mph. Hold it flat, then slightly up & then slightly down. What happens?? Now think about how the rear horizontal wing is 2 to 3 times the surface area of your hand. That horizontal wing is one of the best tuning features on a scale so use it. And as for the rules, do the right thing. Don't say you're duplicating a broken boat, we all know that is not the intent of the class. B)

 

[Douglas P Shepherd]

It's real simple. Stick your hand out the car window going 50mph. Hold it flat, then slightly up & then slightly down. What happens?? Now think about how the rear horizontal wing is 2 to 3 times the surface area of your hand. That horizontal wing is one of the best tuning features on a scale so use it. And as for the rules, do the right thing. Don't say you're duplicating a broken boat, we all know that is not the intent of the class. B)

That is a great point Don, Now let's Go one step farther,Drive Down the road and put your hull outside the window at 50 mph and then slightly up with rear wing on it. Will the rear horizontal keep it from blowing out of your hand?

 

[Don Ferrette]

It's real simple. Stick your hand out the car window going 50mph. Hold it flat, then slightly up & then slightly down. What happens?? Now think about how the rear horizontal wing is 2 to 3 times the surface area of your hand. That horizontal wing is one of the best tuning features on a scale so use it. And as for the rules, do the right thing. Don't say you're duplicating a broken boat, we all know that is not the intent of the class. B)

That is a great point Don, Now let's Go one step farther,Drive Down the road and put your hull outside the window at 50 mph and then slightly up with rear wing on it. Will the rear horizontal keep it from blowing out of your hand?

We can try that if it's your boat we use. You drive...............

 

[Douglas P Shepherd]

It's real simple. Stick your hand out the car window going 50mph. Hold it flat, then slightly up & then slightly down. What happens?? Now think about how the rear horizontal wing is 2 to 3 times the surface area of your hand. That horizontal wing is one of the best tuning features on a scale so use it. And as for the rules, do the right thing. Don't say you're duplicating a broken boat, we all know that is not the intent of the class. B)

That is a great point Don, Now let's Go one step farther,Drive Down the road and put your hull outside the window at 50 mph and then slightly up with rear wing on it. Will the rear horizontal keep it from blowing out of your hand? Also in a hydoplane what is the most controling Water or Air? My point here is Water is 900 to one the most controling factor in a Hydoplane . So I feel that most of your time to find speed should come from the water side not the air side. But the wing do help it fly and are a great tool. But this is the big reason the front ram wing was put on the newer hull. The rear horizontal was to slow to react and applied minimum down force. Engines were move back for more transom weight and higher rack props were used to let the hull fly. This is whey the speeds are up with less Hp. This concept is also working in the newer scale hull and the speeds will also go up. Happy testing Doug

 

[Don Ferrette]

It's real simple. Stick your hand out the car window going 50mph. Hold it flat, then slightly up & then slightly down. What happens?? Now think about how the rear horizontal wing is 2 to 3 times the surface area of your hand. That horizontal wing is one of the best tuning features on a scale so use it. And as for the rules, do the right thing. Don't say you're duplicating a broken boat, we all know that is not the intent of the class. B)

That is a great point Don, Now let's Go one step farther,Drive Down the road and put your hull outside the window at 50 mph and then slightly up with rear wing on it. Will the rear horizontal keep it from blowing out of your hand? Also in a hydoplane what is the most controling Water or Air? My point here is Water is 900 to one the most controling factor in a Hydoplane . So I feel that most of your time to find speed should come from the water side not the air side. You will get more for your time spent at the pond testing racing

Thanks Doug

Ok so rewind to what you previously said-

" My Bud T4 hull is .5 to 1.0 per lap faster with the wing than without."

I'm just saying don't forget the impact a rear horizontal wing can have, seems you agreed.

All in fun bro.

 

[Douglas P Shepherd]

It's real simple. Stick your hand out the car window going 50mph. Hold it flat, then slightly up & then slightly down. What happens?? Now think about how the rear horizontal wing is 2 to 3 times the surface area of your hand. That horizontal wing is one of the best tuning features on a scale so use it. And as for the rules, do the right thing. Don't say you're duplicating a broken boat, we all know that is not the intent of the class. B)

That is a great point Don, Now let's Go one step farther,Drive Down the road and put your hull outside the window at 50 mph and then slightly up with rear wing on it. Will the rear horizontal keep it from blowing out of your hand? Also in a hydoplane what is the most controling Water or Air? My point here is Water is 900 to one the most controling factor in a Hydoplane . So I feel that most of your time to find speed should come from the water side not the air side. You will get more for your time spent at the pond testing racing

Thanks Doug

Ok so rewind to what you previously said-

" My Bud T4 hull is .5 to 1.0 per lap faster with the wing than without."

I'm just saying don't forget the impact a rear horizontal wing can have, seems you agreed.

All in fun bro.

[/quote Very much in fun Don

 

[Douglas P Shepherd]

The lap times were better, but the overall speed was 3 plus mph faster without the wing, than with the wing

The wing was helping the hull in the cournier. I did later find the extra Item needed on the sponsons bottom and afterplanes and a different prop program to fix the problem. When useing the T-4 as a test bed hull for the T-6 project I am working on.

So I now have to put a new set of canoes on my T-4.

 

[noodles]

What is the best way to attach the wings to the top of the hull to prevent the hull from damaged in a flip, with being strong enough to stay inplace. Do you add flotation? I have so much to learn. Thank you. Elam Plus 2005

 

[Don Ferrette]

What is the best way to attach the wings to the top of the hull to prevent the hull from damaged in a flip, with being strong enough to stay inplace. Do you add flotation? I have so much to learn. Thank you. Elam Plus 2005

I use angle aluminum stock thru the deck. Slot bottom of wings to fit over aluminum tabs, cross drill them & tap holes for 6-32 nylon screws. This set up will break away in a flip. Check here on my Smokin' Joe's build up to see how I do it-

https://www.intlwaters.com/gallery/displayimage...album=77&pos=12

https://www.intlwaters.com/gallery/displayimage...album=77&pos=19

https://www.intlwaters.com/gallery/displayimage...album=77&pos=24

 

[noodles]

Nice boat, Excellent Workmanship.

 

[Don Ferrette]

Nice boat, Excellent Workmanship.

Thanks. Did that give some ideas?

 

[Russell Bear]

Here's some more pictures to give you an idea.

https://www.intlwaters.com/gallery/displayimage...lbum=103&pos=56

https://www.intlwaters.com/gallery/displayimage...lbum=103&pos=57

https://www.intlwaters.com/gallery/displayimage...lbum=103&pos=63

https://www.intlwaters.com/gallery/displayimage...lbum=103&pos=64

https://www.intlwaters.com/gallery/displayimage...lbum=103&pos=85

https://www.intlwaters.com/gallery/displayimage...lbum=103&pos=84

https://www.intlwaters.com/gallery/displayimage...bum=103&pos=118

 

[hgatjens]

I made a little web page on hw we mounted the wings on my boat a few years back. Remarkably it seems I never took it down.

http://gatjens.com/wing/wing.htm