Fuel Mixture

[LarryConrad]

14% KL100 Klotz with from 50 to 70% nitro. It burns clean and provides plenty of lubrication.

 

[Terry Keeley]

that weird z.

i tried it must have been 8 different gallons of of oil VISCOSITY's in the same oil percentages and no real noticable difference. this was done not changing anything on the boat.. only fuel.. and a radar gun in hand.. ( take that for what it is )

now when i went to different oil PERCENTAGES.. ya i did find some very noticable difference.. i suppose there is a chance that the lower percents flow better.. but you would think that would be true for say a HIGHER oil percentage with a THINNER oil.

who knows..

heck i would just like to go 100mph once. lol

good topic

Can you tell us "how low did you go" in percentage oil? What motor(s) were you running?

Put an 80 in that 60 Crapshooter of yours, slap a 2170 on the back and come to Flint in the Fall, you'll go 100+!

 

[mark voorhies]

that weird z.

i tried it must have been 8 different gallons of of oil VISCOSITY's in the same oil percentages and no real noticable difference. this was done not changing anything on the boat.. only fuel.. and a radar gun in hand.. ( take that for what it is )

now when i went to different oil PERCENTAGES.. ya i did find some very noticable difference.. i suppose there is a chance that the lower percents flow better.. but you would think that would be true for say a HIGHER oil percentage with a THINNER oil.

who knows..

heck i would just like to go 100mph once. lol

good topic

Can you tell us "how low did you go" in percentage oil? What motor(s) were you running?

Put an 80 in that 60 Crapshooter of yours, slap a 2170 on the back and come to Flint in the Fall, you'll go 100+!

There ya go Chris, get your 100 mph patch, Terry makes it sound easy, I know it's not.

But can you tell us how low you went on oil? Let's say on the.21 ??

 

[Rick Doane]

that weird z.

i tried it must have been 8 different gallons of of oil VISCOSITY's in the same oil percentages and no real noticable difference. this was done not changing anything on the boat.. only fuel.. and a radar gun in hand.. ( take that for what it is )

now when i went to different oil PERCENTAGES.. ya i did find some very noticable difference.. i suppose there is a chance that the lower percents flow better.. but you would think that would be true for say a HIGHER oil percentage with a THINNER oil.

who knows..

heck i would just like to go 100mph once. lol

good topic

Can you tell us "how low did you go" in percentage oil? What motor(s) were you running?

Put an 80 in that 60 Crapshooter of yours, slap a 2170 on the back and come to Flint in the Fall, you'll go 100+!

 

[HVAC25000]

Hey guys, not to hijack the thread (you can PM me replies), but where the heck can I get nitro to mix my own fuel? Are there any online retailers? If not, anyone know of a place near San Diego that has it?

Also, are there any online retailers that carry that new Byron Hydro fuel? I can't find any, and there are no retailers near me.

Thanks

Chris

 

[Chris Wood]

ah terry i wish.. lol i want to go 100 with a 67.. we will see.. maybe some day

i went at low as 6% total oil.. motors were fine but like i said.. for a fuel to be sold for everyday use.. i suggested they not move that direction.

that was with both 21 motors and bigger motors like 67's

the oil content they are currently producing IS NOT that low.

chris

 

[Grimracer]

From what I know Byron Hydro Glow is 18% oil

When I spoke to Ryan last year at IRCHA he said they were still looking into adding a tic of castor to the fuel.. From what I undersand they did..

Hum.. maybe its only the 25% that has it..

Grim

 

[Chris Wood]

Hey mike,

nope not near that high and NO CASTOR

 

[Jim Allen]

80% nitro

12% ethylene oxide

8% oil (2/3 Klotz super techniplate, 1/3 Blenzall racing castor)

Needles like 40% nitro with 40% menthanol alcohol.

Jim Allen

Mr. Jim, what are the advantages of the ethylene oxide over propylene oxide?

Have you ever tried acetone in your fuel mixture?

Thanks, Charles

The oxygen bond in ehtylene is broken much more easily than the bond in proplylene. When I tested high nitro fuels with large amounts of proplylene (12 to 14%), they would not burn properly. Ethylene works properly in high nitro fuels of 78 to 82 %.

I never tested acetone as an ignitor for nitro methane.

Jim Allen

 

[Piston1]

Many years ago Jerry Davet told me that all I needed was Sig Champion 35% fuel. That was close to 15 years ago. I tried it and and I have not changed since then. Champion 35% is 50/50 cas./ syn. 20% oil. This fuel is perfect for big block engines. Sig mixes fuel using Klotz products. I am now blending Sig Champ 35 with Syn. boat fuel 55% to introduce the Castor component in the mix. I blend to achieve 50% Nitro and then adjust my motors (head volumes) to the fuel. Sig fuels have been good to me.

 

[Grimracer]

aha.. you are indeed right.. 16%

Rock and Roll

Grim

 

[Bob Kensill]

I hve tried most of the commercially available fuels over the years and have found none better than Cooper fuels (available from S&W Hobbies). I have been running 70% nitro with 6% percent oil,without a lubrication related failure. Brian Cooper explained to me how all the products in his fuel worked. The combustion process in our engines require at least 6% oil to keep the "flame lit". I have run this fuel in all my engines from .12 up to .82 and they love it .My .12 Orion CRF engine will turn over 40k rpm, my K&B .45 29k rpm and my OPS .80 25k+ rpm. The fuel is also easy on glow plugs. (Odonnell #9)

Bob Kensill

 

[Terry Keeley]

ah terry i wish.. lol i want to go 100 with a 67.. we will see.. maybe some day

i went at low as 6% total oil.. motors were fine but like i said.. for a fuel to be sold for everyday use.. i suggested they not move that direction.

that was with both 21 motors and bigger motors like 67's

the oil content they are currently producing IS NOT that low.

chris

Thanks for the info, I tested down to 4% once and was amazed I couldn't blow that 'ol P67 up!

Made me realize we're running way too much oil (on average). I now run 12% in everything with an oil that's similar to Morgans, I do add a little if I got a "tighty" to break in though...

 

[dave roach]

Charles

21 engines

I have been using acetone in my fuel for 15 years with 16% klotz K-L100 and it's a great mixer 50 % nitro and run the head clearance tight.

Dave

 

[Marty Davis]

80% nitro

12% ethylene oxide

8% oil (2/3 Klotz super techniplate, 1/3 Blenzall racing castor)

Needles like 40% nitro with 40% menthanol alcohol.

Jim Allen

Mr. Jim, what are the advantages of the ethylene oxide over propylene oxide?

Have you ever tried acetone in your fuel mixture?

Thanks, Charles

The oxygen bond in ehtylene is broken much more easily than the bond in proplylene. When I tested high nitro fuels with large amounts of proplylene (12 to 14%), they would not burn properly. Ethylene works properly in high nitro fuels of 78 to 82 %.

I never tested acetone as an ignitor for nitro methane.

Jim Allen

Jim:

What is the availability of Ethylene Oxide?

Where do you get it?

 

[Marty Davis]

I hve tried most of the commercially available fuels over the years and have found none better than Cooper fuels (available from S&W Hobbies). I have been running 70% nitro with 6% percent oil,without a lubrication related failure. Brian Cooper explained to me how all the products in his fuel worked. The combustion process in our engines require at least 6% oil to keep the "flame lit". I have run this fuel in all my engines from .12 up to .82 and they love it .My .12 Orion CRF engine will turn over 40k rpm, my K&B .45 29k rpm and my OPS .80 25k+ rpm. The fuel is also easy on glow plugs. (Odonnell #9)

Bob Kensill

Bob:

I agree with what you are doing....

I don't run that low a percentage of oil (I run 12% Morgan Synthetic).

BUT, here is the bottom line: If you have 12oz of fuel in your tank. How much of that mixture is BURNABLE? For you all but 6% is burnable. For those that are running 18% 18% is not burnable. What a difference and what a difference in performance that equals.

I would think that the answer to all of this is to run the least amout of oil that you can and still not have adverse effect on parts and bearings.

I am interested in what oil the Cooper Fuel uses as I would sure like to be able to reduce my oil content some more.

 

[Grimracer]

I hve tried most of the commercially available fuels over the years and have found none better than Cooper fuels (available from S&W Hobbies). I have been running 70% nitro with 6% percent oil,without a lubrication related failure. Brian Cooper explained to me how all the products in his fuel worked. The combustion process in our engines require at least 6% oil to keep the "flame lit". I have run this fuel in all my engines from .12 up to .82 and they love it .My .12 Orion CRF engine will turn over 40k rpm, my K&B .45 29k rpm and my OPS .80 25k+ rpm. The fuel is also easy on glow plugs. (Odonnell #9)

Bob Kensill

Bob:

I agree with what you are doing....

I don't run that low a percentage of oil (I run 12% Morgan Synthetic).

BUT, here is the bottom line: If you have 12oz of fuel in your tank. How much of that mixture is BURNABLE? For you all but 6% is burnable. For those that are running 18% 18% is not burnable. What a difference and what a difference in performance that equals.

I would think that the answer to all of this is to run the least amout of oil that you can and still not have adverse effect on parts and bearings.

I am interested in what oil the Cooper Fuel uses as I would sure like to be able to reduce my oil content some more.

Marty.. good post.. the question then might be.

What is performance?

Its allot of things.. its like the word fast..

Dang man.. you are fast today (high boat speed)

or

Dang man.. you are fast today (driving well)

or

Dang man.. you are fast today (im slow and your faster)

If you hang with the racer you can pic up one from the other even though the words are the same.

Its not a radar gun reading showing top speed to me... but that is just me. or at least Its a very small part of the word Performance. You know this too.. However it is measurable data.. like lap times.

Then… lap times are not the only thing we are after as well.. likely more important to some but rarely spoke of.

Then there is constancy.. that truly can be all of the above along with many many other factors.

Anyhow…

Fun stuff for sure!

Rocket and Roll

Grim

 

[Blackout]

So, the reason why we can't run car fuel, which usually has 12% oil, is because the viscosity of the oil is too thin??

Assuming my math is correct, a 50:1 mix works out to 2% oil. That is what most full scale outboards run. My 1985 Tecate 250 three-wheeler ran a 20:1 mix, which is 5% oil...

Interesting stuff...

 

[Grimracer]

THAT is a great observation..

In my testing.. and what I know of... the fuels we sell and MFG (the oil) "to date" have the same Viscosity in all of them.. Allot of that has to do (I feel) because we are using current Off the Shelf oils.

in the words of TK

If ya always do what ya always did

You always get what ya always got

Grim

Your calc needs meth in it to work for our fuels.. Typcail meth per gal is around 40 or so oz (50%)

 

[dwilfong]

Jim

I am very interested in the ethylene oxide you refer to. From what I have found out it is a gas above 51F.

That is why I was asking how do you mix it with nitro.

Not trying to be a smart a$$ just want to learn all I can for future reference.

Also where do you get it.

David