carbon pipes

[camaroboy383]

if one was to make carbon pipes ...... what would be the best hardening agent?? :huh: .... in other words what are, or would you use??? epoxy layups? some sort of polyester agent???

this is the scoop... i have a homemade pipe i think works excellent... i recently aquired an insane amount of stranded carbon fiber... i would basicaly like to produce this pipe in carbon.. i need to figure out lay up ideas...

i want to get a couple together for testing...will proly have to ship a couple to the fla. area seen as how the water will be hard here soon... this pipe should be ideal for .12-.18 engines,,, but may possibly work on .21's also

any info on this subject is appriciated...

alden

 

[Ron Olson]

I don't know what they're using for laying up CF pipes as it seems like they have some kind of "secret sauce" that resists softening when it gets hot. I think that the "square wave" pipe has a brass insert on the in side and maybe in the stinger.

 

[camaroboy383]

i though about that ron....i was for sure gonna use an aluminum or brass tube both on the inlet side of the pipe and the stinger...im very curios as to the chemicals used in layup,,,not softening or deteriorating will be key....first im gonna need to make a master mold of the inside of the pipe...

any idea's on that??? i have a few but would like some feedback on that subject also....this could be a real secretive subject,,, but lets see what comes to the table....

i look foward to any and all replies...

alden

 

[tnrcboatracer]

A filament wound pipe will be near impossible to make. I used to work in the composites industry doing exactly as you propose haking pressure bottles, golf shafts, etc. . I am also the maker of the CF squarewave pipe. You need to use a super high temp epoxy. There is another type of resin (polyimide) that would work even better, but it has some very difficult fabrication and cure requirements, so I don;t use it. I use CNC machined aluminum insert in the header and stinger for crush strength at high temp. It took me a year or so to find the correct epoxy and a fabrication method to produce the squarewave. The reason I use CF for the squarewave is that the metal version fails due to the resonanec of the flat sides, otherwise I would use metal. Good luck in your quest.

 

[camaroboy383]

thank you for the reply,it very valuble info.... i have been looking into and epoxy resin i believe will work very well,,,but there are some unseen properties im waiting for answers on from the manufacturer....it seems as though all the very high temp epoxies need special baked drying instructions for proper heat and chemical resistance,,which i was kinda prepared for....

i also read an article somewhere that its a myth to have both a high heat and chemicaly resistant epoxy???? it seems as though they are implying that its both,,,but one way more than the other...

i was looking at epoxy.com #641lv,,seems like the values are there except it says 400° and im not so sure its gonna cut it...

 

[shoboat]

Alden,

Call Norm in Tech support (352.533.2167) he will let you know.

400* is not going to be adequate.

Good Luck,

Mark Sholund

 

[camaroboy383]

thank you mark.....i will give him a call....

alden

 

[TomMoorehouse]

ive thought about trying this one http://www.cotronics.com/vo/cotr/ea_ultratemp.htm dont know if it would work.

 

[moparbarn]

alden, i have 4 that you are welcome to look at. one of jon's square wave pipes for a front ex./drum intake motor, a spp td21h, my gadjetcraft ob pipe & an unknown :blink: cf pipe that i got from james clegg. he got it from tony jacuzzi. that's all i i know about that one. if jon or arron alberico or tony could let me know if they have any objections to this. PLEASE POST HERE !! if not, alden my water will be hard very soon, you can look at these this winter, if it would help understand construction techniques . you already have a gadjie don't you?

 

[camaroboy383]

i also looked into that same stuff tom...found it browsing around the net last night... thanks for the link as i could not find it after i looked at it the first time...seems like a good product....

alden

 

[camaroboy383]

yes sir i do have a gadgy pipe....my pride and joy is what that is....lol...i was going to construct my pipe in halves off of the master plug of the inside of the pipe...join the two thin sides and wrap it with the stranded carbon...similar to the gadjet as in the halves,,,obviously the gadget isnt wrapped after,, but im going to try to use similar building methods...i could be going through all of this for nothing,,,its a hit or miss kinda thing... the pipes im making work well for me,,,,but they are aluminum pipes,,,not carbon.... that being said you know what i mean when i say its a shot in the dark....its either gonna work well,, or its not going to produce results at all....i wont know till i get a couple made and have them tested...thank you for your offer robin,,,,as always u are the man....i perdy much have the process down,,,but i need to find the proper chemicals first...

thank you again...but, im all set my friend..

alden

 

[dwilfong]

I have bin bouncing this around for some time. Make a core out of a large candle turned down on a wood lathe then wrap it in plaster to make a cast and cut it in half . This would be the master. Then pour hot wax in the master to make the plug. Lay up with CF and melt the wax out when done.

David

 

[tnrcboatracer]

The resin I use requires an 8r stepped cure. The last step cure temp is 425F. Most epoxies are only good to the 500 max range.

Robin, feel free to share the pipe, it is yours to do with as you please.

I use braided socks over aluminum mandrels. The pipes are made in 2 halves and sock(s) are placed over the entire pipe to hold the halves together. The wax mandrel idea would not survive my manufacturing process By making the pipe in 2 halves, I can place a center band to tune the pipe for a specific application.. But the wax concept gives me a great idea. I've been toying with a CF Squarwwave OB pipe, but the manufacturing had me stymied, The mold was going to cost me a small fortune. but now I have a new idea to check out.

 

[Marty Davis]

The resin I use requires an 8r stepped cure. The last step cure temp is 425F. Most epoxies are only good to the 500 max range.

Robin, feel free to share the pipe, it is yours to do with as you please.

I use braided socks over aluminum mandrels. The pipes are made in 2 halves and sock(s) are placed over the entire pipe to hold the halves together. The wax mandrel idea would not survive my manufacturing process By making the pipe in 2 halves, I can place a center band to tune the pipe for a specific application.. But the wax concept gives me a great idea. I've been toying with a CF Squarwwave OB pipe, but the manufacturing had me stymied, The mold was going to cost me a small fortune. but now I have a new idea to check out.

Jon:

McMaster-Carr has machinable wax in almost any shape you want. Melts at a low temp and machines very well.

 

[dwilfong]

The resin I use requires an 8r stepped cure. The last step cure temp is 425F. Most epoxies are only good to the 500 max range.

Robin, feel free to share the pipe, it is yours to do with as you please.

I use braided socks over aluminum mandrels. The pipes are made in 2 halves and sock(s) are placed over the entire pipe to hold the halves together. The wax mandrel idea would not survive my manufacturing process By making the pipe in 2 halves, I can place a center band to tune the pipe for a specific application.. But the wax concept gives me a great idea. I've been toying with a CF Squarwwave OB pipe, but the manufacturing had me stymied, The mold was going to cost me a small fortune. but now I have a new idea to check out.

If the resin sets up at low temp and just needs to cure at high temp it would work. It would save time and be very cheep to make the mold. This would make testing very easy on different designs.

David

 

[tnrcboatracer]

It will gel at room temp, but needs a 150 cure to have any initial strength. I also use a heaqt gun during layup, so it was to hold up to some surface temp.

Marty, I don't want to have to machine every mandrel, I want to cast them in a mold. Thanks for the tip, I'll see what they have that may work at my temps.

 

[Jeff Schindler]

How about casting the mandrel from solder? Eutectic Sn/Pb goes liquid phase at 361 F. I don't know what the health risks would be having that much lead melted at once though.

 

[tnrcboatracer]

I have seen the Cotronix material before, but never used it. Their info didn't make sense; they show a TG of 500F with a cure of 250F. That doesn't make sense with epoxy chemistry. Their tensile strength is 10,300PSI, which is pretty low. The resin I use has a tensile strength of 30,000PSI, and a flex strength around 55,000PSI.

TYhe resin I use will gel at room temp, but requires a 150F cure to get enough strength to pull from the mold. I will look into the machinable waxs and their melt temp. Thanks for the great idea.

 

[moparbarn]

jon, instead of machining wax for molds, couldn't you make a mold in halves to cast wax plugs? think wax choices & cost might be better. you could whittle your master plug out of anything durable, to cast mold halves from.

 

[tnrcboatracer]

I didn't know if machineable wax was castable. The mold has to be stable up to 300F or so, so that's not too bad. I see a new project on my horizon........

Jon